September Tournament: 19x19 DDK

Monadology · **#21**

SinK wrote:

I am happy to do the administrative side of things if no one else wants to. Might I suggest going with a swiss style tourney though since that way everyone gets to play every round which is a bit more inclusive than a knock out would be.

That would be great.

MarcoRosso · **#22**

I'd be willing to help as well. Since, I'm going to be on KGS more anyway's. I suggest the round robin as well. Since it doesn't put too much pressure on players participating.

Best Regards,
MarcoRosso

nnk · **#23**

i'm in

(every tournament needs an omega player

)

ps: i would also favor a non-elliminatory system (i'm a self-confessed triple-digit-kyu, so no surprise there, eh?

), i think it's better for a "friendly" tournament, the idea is to get to play as many games as possible. personally, i'd rather play more and be on the bottom of the list, as opposed to trying to win through "calculations". next time, when we get funding for some prizes for the winner(s), we might have to rethink, but for now... just my humble opinion

SinK · **#24**

Here's the players so far with any confusion in brackets:

kiethlard
kukula
noodley
Rafa
Monadology
SinK
psk31
Maere (may not have enough time to play)
docgnome
Mivo (? didn't actually say he/she/it was in but seemed like it from his/her/it's post)
threeve
MarcoRosso (maybe playing maybe just helping the running of things)
nnk

10-13 players

A round robin is possible with these numbers though in that case do we nigiri for black or does black automatically go to the lower ranked player?

Maere · **#25**

I'll be away for a week in September. It makes it tough to play around 10 games in September. But if the schedule of the tournament allows to stretch for a week or so in October, I would be able to participate. Would that be alright?

SinK wrote:

A round robin is possible with these numbers though in that case do we nigiri for black or does black automatically go to the lower ranked player?

And here I come back with my question about handicap? I know ranking is somewhat inacurate at our level, but wouldn't it be frustrating for the players of 20k and below to face people 5-6 stones stronger in an even game?

SinK · **#26**

Maere wrote:

And here I come back with my question about handicap? I know ranking is somewhat inacurate at our level, but wouldn't it be frustrating for the players of 20k and below to face people 5-6 stones stronger in an even game?

In tourneys and league games are usually not handicapped. A handicap's purpose is to make a game even (ie.50/50) which kind of defeats the object of a competition in which the you want the man who plays best to win. Besides handicaps could very well change over the course of a tourney and inaccurate handicaps could make it very unfair.

Perhaps a Swiss tourney would be fairer in that although it would fewer games at 6 or 8 games each (2 per round) the weaker players would be playing the other weaker players in the later rounds which would prevent the 15k vs 22k match ups. That are admittedly quite extreme. A quick straw poll should sort it out:

ROUND ROBIN OR SWISS TOURNEY PEOPLE? WHICH DO YOU PREFER?

keithlard · **#27**

I'd like to stick to the format as originally described, if you don't mind - in other words minimal organisation and no limit on the number of games.

Don't let me stop you organising an alternative Swiss tourney, though - I think that's a great idea and would play in it.

What I'd like to do with this tournament is replicate as far as possible the format of the ASR league.

Monadology · **#28**

Swiss sounds good, but I don't mind Round Robin.

Rafa · **#29**

I pick swiss too.

Stefany93 · **#30**

Damn, make the tournament 1 game per a day in the godiccussions room. What means '' you can play as many games as you want '' - then I will play 24 hours a day and at the end of Sep I will have 3000 games played and 1000 victories - no one can beat me

Please change these stupid rules, and I will join at once. You have my word.

iambadatgo · **#31**

I will play regardless of the format. Unfortunately the initial format is what I would NOT like to play, as I don't have a lot of free time. I would prefer the round-robin or swiss-style format, but any works fine for me.

So please put me on the list!

SinK · **#32**

Have started a separate thread for the swiss tourney. This thread is now purely for the league games.

Swiss thread here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1528

keithlard · **#33**

It's the 1st of September so I declare this tournament officially open!

Here are the players currently signed up (remember, you can join at any time by just posting to this thread and saying "I AM IN").

Code:

Name        Played  Won   Lost  Win%  Points
keithlard        0    0      0     0       0
kukula           0    0      0     0       0
noodley          0    0      0     0       0
Rafa             0    0      0     0       0
Monadology       0    0      0     0       0
SinK             0    0      0     0       0
psk31            0    0      0     0       0
docgnome         0    0      0     0       0
threeve          0    0      0     0       0

Arrange your own matches, or just post a game request in the GoDiscussions room on KGS with the subject "L19 DDK league game".

Note: there are two tournaments being held for DDKs this month: a Swiss tourney, where matches are scheduled and everyone plays everyone else exactly once, and this one: a free-form league where you can play as many matches as you like. Join either or both, whichever suits you.

Please post game results here: I will update the standings every so often and you can also check the current results at http://go.keithlard.com/go-tournament-september.

Just a note about the rankings: the winner will be decided by number of points scored (1 for a win, 0 for a loss). People with the same number of points will be ranked by win ratio (eg 5 wins out of 7 games). If two people tie for first place on points and win ratio, there will be a tie-break match to decide the winner.

threeve · **#34**

Just wanted to post my typical hours here in case someone wants to catch me to play a game. I live near Chicago, so that puts me in Central daylight time (UTC-5). I usually play in the evenings during the week, anywhere from 8-11 pm CDT. I play on the weekends as well at various times, but if you want to arrange a game in advance I can be on at a specific time (early or late). If you see me online don't hesitate to ask me to play, or pm me to schedule a time in advance. Looking forward to playing!

noodley · **#35**

Camarao and I played a league game today. Result noodley(w)+ resign.

I think I (white) fell behind in the opening here. Any comments or advice would be appreciated.

Chew Terr · **#36**

Noodley: I like most of the decisions you made early on. A few thoughts:
12: consider attaching at C17. It's not the only option, but it's a useful option to remember. I believe that Fwiffo used that, or something like it, in our Malkovich game.
20: This is the first thing I really question. I am told that diagonal plays like 19 are about as urgent to respond to as contact plays. If you block at R10, black cannot get eyespace there and your stones form an ideal extension (3 spaces from 2 stones). Between S3 and R10, you can't really threaten that group. The block protects against the invasion, which does happen eventually.
64: I like pushing shallower, at G6. This is sente enough that you should still get to reduce deeper, but it's safer to start from the edge of the moyos.

Got to run, but the biggest thing I recommend you look at is 20.

Maere · **#37**

Chew Terr wrote:

Noodley: I like most of the decisions you made early on. A few thoughts:
12: consider attaching at C17. It's not the only option, but it's a useful option to remember. I believe that Fwiffo used that, or something like it, in our Malkovich game.

I discussed the game with noodley. We talked about this move for a while and both missed going for the corner :!:

Even so, I keep wondering about this move. What would you do afterwards? Lean against the left side, maybe, to build some thickness and invade the top? There seems to be a danger to make black strong both on the top and the left while white strugles in neutral area, far from friend stones. This is not so easy to play in my eyes.
Do you have continuations in mind?

Chew Terr · **#38**

Maere wrote:

Chew Terr wrote:

Noodley: I like most of the decisions you made early on. A few thoughts:
12: consider attaching at C17. It's not the only option, but it's a useful option to remember. I believe that Fwiffo used that, or something like it, in our Malkovich game.

I discussed the game with noodley. We talked about this move for a while and both missed going for the corner :!:

Even so, I keep wondering about this move. What would you do afterwards? Lean against the left side, maybe, to build some thickness and invade the top? There seems to be a danger to make black strong both on the top and the left while white strugles in neutral area, far from friend stones. This is not so easy to play in my eyes.
Do you have continuations in mind?

I haven't seen it too often, but I know it can be useful. As I said, Fwiffo used it in our Malkovich game in the following position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He said 'I do remember they start with attaching and then black has a choice of hane on either side. If black chooses to hane between the white stones, then white cross-cuts.

It's bad to blindly play moves without understanding them, and since I don't know the joseki beyond the first couple moves, maybe it's bad for me to try to ape it. But I understand the idea behind the first few moves. The cross-cut is a standard technique for settling, so I think I'll manage'. Basically, it allows white in both cases to settle more easily.

[Hide]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W 1 . O . . . X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . 5 X 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 4 . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Okay, this seems WAY too good for white, so I probably didn't use the best responses for black (or either side). It is complicated and there are tons of possible responses, but many are reasonable for white. I looked it up in Daniel the Smith's joseki site (dailyjoseki.com). What it says is most common is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 W 1 7 O . . . X . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X 2 5 . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Something like this came up as a reasonably common followup. The point is, white is a ton more stable than he would be as a result of running. (As an aside, 'a' would be a great point for white after this, as it pushes him low.

Maere · **#39**

Thank you, it definitely sounds worth a try.

noodley · **#40**

Threeve and I played a league game today. Result noodley(b)+ resign.

We were both mapping out large areas until an invasion in the corner ended with a liberty race. After the game we were trying to figure out when the best time would have been for White to play on the right side to break up black's moyo.

September Tournament: 19x19 DDK

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