September DDK Swiss

psk31 · **#81**

Thanks again Dusk Eagle. :salute:

That helped. And I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy when I saw the A19/T1 moves and wondered what in the ... Knew in the back of my mind those weren't right but maybe there was some secret knowledge I hadn't gained yet.

Sometimes I will try to save a dead group just to see if I can (learning curve). Usually it just ends up confirming to me that yep, they're dead.

Now back to studying to realize when I have an area settled but I don't recognize that as well. :study:

SinK · **#82**

Could we get Stephany93 vs. noodley and iambadatgo vs. kukula played over the weekend. Today was the deadline and your holding the whole thing up guys.

noodley · **#83**

Stephany93 and I have our games scheduled for 10AM GMT on Saturday.

Stefany93 · **#84**

Sorry Sink, me and noodley will play tomorrow, we promise. :tmbup:

noodley · **#85**

Stefany93 and I played our games today. Sorry for the delay.

Both games ended up with large capture races to decide the winner.

Noodley(B) - Stefany93(W), B+71.5

Stefany93(B) - Noodley(W), W+29.5

Suji · **#86**

Hey, SinK. I'd be willing to participate in the next one. This looks like a lot of fun.

Stefany93 · **#87**

Suji wrote:

Hey, SinK. I'd be willing to participate in the next one. This looks like a lot of fun.

Yeah, esp. when you lose :lol:

Suji · **#88**

Stefany93 wrote:

Suji wrote:

Hey, SinK. I'd be willing to participate in the next one. This looks like a lot of fun.

Yeah, esp. when you lose :lol:

We'll just have to see, won't we?

Chew Terr · **#89**

Noodley and Stefany, regarding your second game: Good game by both, but some suggestions...

7: I don't like it. It pressures your opponent to take R10, and then when you stretch up, to hit the head of your two stones. This move is called an 'armpit hit' (like a shoulder hit, but underneath), but I've only seen a few times when I really like it. Basically, I consider it this way: Bruce Wilcox considers diagonal plays like this as contact moves, so all of the rules about not contacting until you know what you want from it still apply. While there are exceptions to that rule (especially in the case of using shoulder hits for reduction or attaching for probes and such), you really need to have a plan for it to make it worthwhile.

8: Again, consider diagonal plays attachments, which means responding is urgent. I like R10 more than Q11, just because then you get to hit her stones on the head if she tries to do similarly. However, blocking the center off for thickness is just fine, if not my stylistic choice. Either of those two options, however, are huge.

9: This is an interesting move, but not my favorite. Moves on the second line of the board are generally too low-priority for the opening. Again, if I had my way, 9 would take Q11, since your opponent left it for you.

10: While this is the big side, I'd prefer to take something like E16, since it blocks the 3-4 corner stone's primary direction.

11: Your opponent played a far approach, which makes pincers less threatening. I would rather take points with the corner enclosure, then after white makes a base, use your sente to play on the bottom and mess up white's hopes there.

12: Because you approached wide and pincers were less powerful, you don't need to worry as much when pincered. This may just be because of my style, but I would counter-pincer around C8, and have E16 and E13 as miai. I'm not sure if that's right, but know that you're under less pressure because your pincered stone has a bit more space.

14: Good, prevents much of a base

15: While this is good because any amount of base would be better than none, I would prefer to take E16, to gain framework while fighting. If white takes E16, his stones are much safer.

18: Starts a fight near your weak stones, which could be hurt as a result. Because of your local weakness, I'd give up on dreams of the corner, take the other hane, and feel safer.

24: While what you played is often a vital point of this shape if it's closer to the corner, it doesn't work here. The shape looks like you're forcing your opponent to separate and cut off your stones, which she'll be happy to do. It looks like you ought to lose this corner fight, so it's time to cut your losses. Perhaps take F17, since it's kind of forcing, but start considering what you can get on the outside.

45: You cannot let your opponent split you in two with G9. You should take it yourself.

76: It's a little risky, but I would probably not play this. If you need it, it's urgent, but if you can kill those four stones without it, this is a wasted pass-move.

85: I like C18 here. Makes it hard for white.

117: I like R5. A white refutation is hard to see.

127: Not worth giving up sente. Look for bigger areas of conflict, like O12 or MAYBE S5.

130: Well done, you use sente well in this following sequence.

216: I know you're feeling bloodthirsty, but you can play more safely. L1 seems to keep L2 dead with no risk to it.

Stefany93 · **#90**

Chew Terr wrote:

Noodley and Stefany, regarding your second game: Good game by both, but some suggestions...

7: I don't like it. It pressures your opponent to take R10, and then when you stretch up, to hit the head of your two stones. This move is called an 'armpit hit' (like a shoulder hit, but underneath), but I've only seen a few times when I really like it. Basically, I consider it this way: Bruce Wilcox considers diagonal plays like this as contact moves, so all of the rules about not contacting until you know what you want from it still apply. While there are exceptions to that rule (especially in the case of using shoulder hits for reduction or attaching for probes and such), you really need to have a plan for it to make it worthwhile.

8: Again, consider diagonal plays attachments, which means responding is urgent. I like R10 more than Q11, just because then you get to hit her stones on the head if she tries to do similarly. However, blocking the center off for thickness is just fine, if not my stylistic choice. Either of those two options, however, are huge.

9: This is an interesting move, but not my favorite. Moves on the second line of the board are generally too low-priority for the opening. Again, if I had my way, 9 would take Q11, since your opponent left it for you.

10: While this is the big side, I'd prefer to take something like E16, since it blocks the 3-4 corner stone's primary direction.

11: Your opponent played a far approach, which makes pincers less threatening. I would rather take points with the corner enclosure, then after white makes a base, use your sente to play on the bottom and mess up white's hopes there.

12: Because you approached wide and pincers were less powerful, you don't need to worry as much when pincered. This may just be because of my style, but I would counter-pincer around C8, and have E16 and E13 as miai. I'm not sure if that's right, but know that you're under less pressure because your pincered stone has a bit more space.

14: Good, prevents much of a base

15: While this is good because any amount of base would be better than none, I would prefer to take E16, to gain framework while fighting. If white takes E16, his stones are much safer.

18: Starts a fight near your weak stones, which could be hurt as a result. Because of your local weakness, I'd give up on dreams of the corner, take the other hane, and feel safer.

24: While what you played is often a vital point of this shape if it's closer to the corner, it doesn't work here. The shape looks like you're forcing your opponent to separate and cut off your stones, which she'll be happy to do. It looks like you ought to lose this corner fight, so it's time to cut your losses. Perhaps take F17, since it's kind of forcing, but start considering what you can get on the outside.

45: You cannot let your opponent split you in two with G9. You should take it yourself.

76: It's a little risky, but I would probably not play this. If you need it, it's urgent, but if you can kill those four stones without it, this is a wasted pass-move.

85: I like C18 here. Makes it hard for white.

117: I like R5. A white refutation is hard to see.

127: Not worth giving up sente. Look for bigger areas of conflict, like O12 or MAYBE S5.

130: Well done, you use sente well in this following sequence.

216: I know you're feeling bloodthirsty, but you can play more safely. L1 seems to keep L2 dead with no risk to it.

We are very grateful, Chew! You are a great man!

nnk · **#91**

ahem.. excuse me

. so is it all over?

or is it just sink being a bit busy for the moment? i'm completely clueless when it comes to this type of tournament, and how it goes/ends

Monadology · **#92**

I think there should be a fourth round at least, since it was supposed to go through the month of September (at one round a week, that makes four).

SinK · **#93**

Sorry. I have been sorting out my return to university and moving into my new digs so have been busy.

There is a fourth round and I will sort it out and post an update and pairings tomorrow.

SinK · **#94**

iambadatgo and kukula get a draw and a warning like kiethlard if they miss their game again this round they are out.

threeve (15k) - 3.0
noodley (15k) - 2.5
nnk (18k) - 2.0
Stephany93 (12k)- 1.5
SinK (16k) - 1.5
iambadatgo (18k)- 1.5
kukula (22k) - 1.5
Maere (16k) - 1.0
Rafa (16k) - 1.0
Monadology (18k)- 1.0
psk31 (26k) - 0.0

This is quite a hard format to pair up fairly but here's my best effort. For the sake of tension perhaps the bottom 3 games could play in the next few days before the top 2 games are played. This would keep the tension since any of threeve, noodley or nnk could still win this thing.

threeve vs. noodley
nnk vs. Stephany
SinK vs. iambadatgo
Maere vs. Monadology
Rafa vs. psk31

kukula (bye) - NB. the bye earns same points as if he played and drew.

nnk · **#95**

unless i misunderstand this, only one of the stars of the first board can win this now, as a draw in a non handicap game is impossible (except maybe triple ko) (?). not that it actually matters, i personally had a lot of fun, and am looking forward to playing stef who is rather strong from what i could tell.

cheers, have fun

psk31 · **#96**

Rafa and I will be playing our match tomorrow (Sat. Oct. 2nd) at 14:00 GMT.

noodley · **#97**

Threeve and I played our games today and we each won one game.

noodley (W) - threeve (B) B+Resign

threeve (W) - noodley (B) B+Resign

Edit: Silly typo.

Stefany93 · **#98**

nnk and I have finished our games. I won both of them. But he played very bravely.

Here they are:

The first one -

[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=450[/sgf-full]

The second one -

[sgf-full]http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=452[/sgf-full]

Chew Terr · **#99**

Noodley vs. Threeve, game 1:
7: Not sure about this, but I'd rather leave it for now. Later, you can push white one way or the other, depending on if one becomes higher-priority. Instead, I'd prefer to approach the bottom left, as you do soon.
11: For the sake of balance in stones, this should probably be either high, or closer.
17: This should just be a simple pillar to D14. With the pillar, the top left corner is open to invasion, but with this, white solidifies the corner. You get a little more solidity, but not enough to be worth losing that aji.
20: Very big point. Pressures black a bit, as well as taking points. The only other place worth considering is R3.
22: Not sure if it's better or if I'm just greedy, but I'd have a hard time not taking B10 and connecting. It starts a fight, and you could potentially lose a lot, but it undercuts black's weak group in addition to threatening to take more points.
26: Since black's group is safe and the center is unlikely to become massive quantities of points for either player, I'd invade the bottom right 3-3.
48: Not bad (especially since you then invade the corner), but you risk your opponent shutting you off with Q3. Instead, I would either invade the corner directly, or perhaps try to reduce with K5.
58: Q2 is both better for your eyespace and hugely sente.
61: Good. It's painful to give white more below, but if the ladder fails, you have to do what you have to do.
64: Should be at Q2. Then, black cannot prevent you from saving O3, gouging out what used to be prospective territory.
71: While it's nice being sure, I would call those white stones dead and tenuki. Perhaps cap white at P10 and follow up with something like tengen. While plenty reducable, it's a scary moyo to behold.
75: While I like the idea of blocking white from the middle (and preventing white from making a little territory there, even), white's already there in a few places. I'd prefer to go to your highest potential area with N8 or M8. While you can't really expect to get all of it, it's seventh-line potential territory.
99: Not sente. You've been doing fairly good endgame prior to this, so keep the train rolling. Perhaps a massive point like K8.
104: Small. Black doesn't really have that good of a threat to follow up with. Better to nab K8, which is massive.
113: An odd choice. 15 is more normal.

Anyways, have to run to lunch, but this should give you some stuff to look at.

Chew Terr · **#100**

nnk and Stefany, for your first game:
8: You seem to like taking these side star points (you also took two in your other game). While it can be useful, it prioritizes the center an awful lot. Taking this point here leaves your opponent R12 in sente, because it threatens to undercut this star point. Prioritizing the center in with the star point would be okay if it were important enough to offer your opponent that move, but in this game, I think it is not. I would prefer to play this move on the third line to emphasize territory and solid groups.
11: One usual rule of thumb for invading corners is to do it after the corner has extended in both directions, which is what your opponent just did. R3 at this move would be huge. Instead you play this shoulder-hit, and then tenuki from the response. One thing you could consider, is to run with that idea. If you use this shoulder-hit THEN invade the corner, white will be over-condensed on the bottom.
15: This is an elephant jump from K17, and leaves a weak spot in between. There are times when this is okay, but this does not seem to be one of them. J15 or K15 are safer, and still make territory/framework while threatening a followup invasion at F17.
16: When you see that elephant jump space, the first move you should consider is playing in the middle and separating the two stones. Even if H17 was split off from the top left corner in the ensuing fight, you would have the advantage in the fight, and likely get good recompense. Instead, you made the same elephant jump, with the same weakness. If you want to play a defensive move, F16 is safe and has better relation with your other stones.
17: Good. This is what happens to unwarranted elephant jumps.
18: I prefer G17. Less likely to get cut off, plus it gives you more stability with which to fight, if you end up doing so.
19: This is big and worth points, but not urgent. You were fighting, don't stop unless you're no longer in danger. While it is alive, G16 reduces white and threatens to cut off H17. As a result, it's worth connecting to it.
20: Big, but the fight is still more urgent.
32: This is inefficient. It forms an empty triangle, so it only increases your liberties by one, and it has no effect on black's liberties. To help this group, C13 is better. It increases your liberties, but reduces black's by 1. Black would have to run, and running would be harder.
33: I don't know if I could resist cutting at F14 and fighting =D.
37: When someone pushes your stone, reinforcing them is often most important. Jumping away this far leaves it to fend for itself, which means it can be picked on.
41: Elephant jump. The knight's move at P14 is better.
55: Good!
92: At this point, you have a lot of cutting points in the top left, and need to stop to defend them. As dmf says in the commentary, if you don't defend, B can cut at B15 and get something for it. Defending at B15 would fix everything.
131: Good!

Sorry, I know I tend to nitpick on really minor details. You both played well, and it was an interesting game to watch. The biggest weakness I would say is this: you often jumped too far (like with elephant jumps) and let your stones get cut off. There are a set of normal moves described on the Sensei's page for haengma (http://senseis.xmp.net/?Haengma) that are meant to preserve connectivity. While some can be cut, they tend to be faster, and can only be cut conditionally. I know Janice Kim talks about these moves in her books, which I recommend, as they helped me a lot when I was a DDK (which I was, by the way, for a very long time). If it is important that a move not be cut off, consider moves like these. In the beginning of the game, it matters less if a stone is cut off, because it still has plenty of room to make a base, live on its own, or it can be sacrificed. However, if a stone serves a big purpose (like surrounding territory, cutting off weak opponent's stones, et cetera), try simple moves like these that help to provide connectivity. Sorry for rambling, but if you have any questions, let me know!

September DDK Swiss

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