Hello colleagues,


How are you? I have been solving a lot of problems on goproblems.com website lately. Now I am doing 4kuy problems but that's not the matter. When I click on a problem I get the enormous desire to click on the board and '' just to see what will happen '' I have realized that this will only make me weak, so I invented a new approach - I copy the problem on my Cgoban and solve it there. Then, of course, I do what I have learned in the goproblems tablet and usually solve it at once because I had previosly solved it on the Cbogan. In that way, I eliminate and ugre to '' just click '' Do you think that is cheating?

Please tell me!
Thank you!

Best Regards
Stefany

_________________
Stefany, web programmer

No, I think it's a good idea-- as long as you are doing the problems in your head and not solving them while playing them out.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

If it reduces your desire to click to copy them to cgoban, that's fine. But it's important that you solve them in your head - not on the clicky thing, not on a board, and not in cgoban. 4k problems should be very difficult for you to solve in your head at your level, so take your time and make sure you have it worked out before you place a stone anywhere! If you can't do that with the 4k problems, go back to easier ones.

_________________
KGS 4 kyu - Game Archive - Keyboard Otaku

X2. And don't let pride get in the way, here--you can do harder problems, but sometimes you'll improve faster if you do easier problems (or at least mix it up).

This is a very common issue. I generally prefer solving problems in books for this reason, but there are other options, like solving these problems, which do not have solutions. The first two levels of Cho Chikun's Encyclopedia of Life and Death would be the best place to start. Also I will mention that, while a good resource, goproblems.com consists mostly of user submitted problems, and because of this, while the problems are good, there is something lacking in the collection as a whole. I would personally recommend the problems on http://Wbaduk.com, both those on the webpage and the larger collection available through the client. These problems intentionally introduce many fundamental patterns that will occur in real games and repeat them often enough that you memorize the techniques.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

Thank you very much guys. The reason I do harder problems than my level is because I have passed the others many times and slightly going up. Of course, solving difficult problems do not make me 4 or 3 kuy and I in no way can feel proud of it.

_________________
Stefany, web programmer

I think you should feel satisfied about soliving harder and harder problems, and solving easier ones more quickly. If reading becomes the strongest part of your game, you will continue to improve quickly.

Grinding for Go:

I've got a confession to make.
I do tsumego all wrong.

The only time I read them out in my head is when I'm doing them on KGS or on this forum.
I use Smartgo for the Iphone, and I grind. I click the first spot, and if that's wrong, I click the second spot, then the third, then the fourth, that comes to mind. Then I try to figure out why the first second third, etc were wrong. Then I try to spot what makes the fourth stand out in the configuration. Then I move on.

I do this a lot. I mean, every day at work, I grind through problems I missed. Last time I erased my progress on the medium dificulty problems, I ground through in 3 days. The time before that had taken 3 weeks.

Right now I'm grinding the 1d+ problems on Smartgo.

I know this is the 'wrong way', but it has helped my reading immensely. And when I look at something, I start identifying eyespace, and looking at a few likely variations for my first and second ideas. And I do all that without really 'visualizing' or 'thinking' about it heavily. I just 'know' that with that eyespace, this sequence of moves kills. It's made me stronger, but I don't know that I'm really 'reading' so much as making it instinctive to look at certain spots.

Maybe I should start trying to read more in my daily grinds, but...

I kinda prefer it. I learn a lot of patterns, fairly quickly, and learn what to look for to refute the bad moves I looked at first. Sure, it's not for everyone, but, don't be afraid of just clicking. After all, the only way to learn to click on the right move first every time is to screw it up enough that you know all the wrong moves, and why they're wrong.

Just my thoughts.

CSam

The important thing is to do it. Optomising is fine, but supobtimal is better than nothing. Whatever makes you happy CS.

If doing tsumego is making you stronger, you are doing it right.

It is always better to improve by doing the wrong thing than to bang your head into a wall while believing you are doing the right thing.

CSamurai, this is my topic, stop going offtopic, or I will call the moderators! If you want help, post a new thread, but don't use mine!

_________________
Stefany, web programmer

I know you're not being entirely serious, but CSamurai was responding to your original post. He essentially just said 'Yeah, I should really do what you're talking about, but I can't seem to make myself." He was questioning an assumption inherent in your original post, which is that you can only learn by reading every problem all the way out.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Reading all the way is the only rational way to improve. Sure you can learn vital points, and it will help, but there is no substitute for reading. (Refer to signature.)

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

reading is good but it always helps to memorize common shape.
for example: there are many shapes in the corner that is worth memorizing.
after that you will have easier time reading variations of that shape.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

People learn differently. Proclaiming that there is one single "rational" way to improve is ridiculous.

What is important is that you develop your reading. But this does not necessarily require sitting on your hands visualizing every move. Some people associate with other methods, and in these cases playing things out may help more.

To head off the common retort "Well you can't play it out in a real game." You're right, but you don't necessarily need to. Reading is a skill which is developed by strengthening your ability to create chains of representations of game states mentally. These representations do not need to be visual. They could just as easily be kinesthetic. In more odd cases involving synesthesia they might even be auditory.

What is rational is to study in the way that best combines fun and improvement. If someone finds that doing tsumego isn't making him stronger, why is it "rational" to keep doing it? Why shouldn't he instead focus on shape knowledge, and practice his reading during serious games instead? I read deeper during a tournament match than I bother doing when I'm solving tsumego.

I kind of agree, but there is something to be said for studying when you don't want to.

You can take exercising your body, for example. Some days, it might be easy and fun to go out and jog around the block. Other days, you might not want to get out of bed. But if you get a routine and do it every day, you can have effective results.

_________________
be immersed

Perhaps you misunderstand what I mean. At the most fundamental level reason is the pattern of thinking that allows one to achieve a desired result. One cannot say whether anything is rational or not without first considering the underlying, ultimately emotionally based, goal. Is it rational to want to live? From a strictly rational perspective, one cannot answer this question. But one can use reason to determine how best to survive. So the underlying assumption of my statement is that the learner wants to become as strong as he/she possibly can. If that is the goal, then reading EVERYTHING one can is necessary. If you do not care about getting stronger, then the best study path is irrelevant.

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War

I think that Monadology was suggesting that there may be ways to become strong without practicing reading everything. For example, if it were possible to become ultimately strong by just practicing memorizing shapes, his point would be valid.

However, I am personally inclined to agree with you - if you want to become strong, you must read as much as you can. While I trust in this axiom, though, it is not proven (eg. It may be theoretically possible to become 9d by simply memorizing shapes - but I doubt it).

_________________
be immersed

I would be curious if someone could point out a pro who hasn't developed his reading ability...

_________________
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War