It is currently Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:40 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Books with or without board?
Post #1 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:58 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 12
Hi

I am a complete beginner and I have one book and different apps for tsumego.

Can some of you give advice on what to prefer as a start?

And, when using the book, should I try to solve the problem in my head or can I use a board?

As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).

I always try to play on after getting or looking up a solution, and since this can be many moves, I assume it is difficult to do this in my head.

Thanks!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #2 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:34 am 
Judan

Posts: 6067
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 344
Was liked: 3262
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Sounds like you are doing problems that are much too hard for you. Get some easier problems, maybe first volume of graded go problems for beginners. Also some beginner explanation material on false eyes would be good. Have you done http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #3 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:54 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 8810
Liked others: 2597
Was liked: 3005
Jika wrote:
Hi

I am a complete beginner and I have one book and different apps for tsumego.

Can some of you give advice on what to prefer as a start?


Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.

Quote:
As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).


I agree with Uberdude, these problems are at the moment too difficult for you. That may not be so in a week or two, however, because beginners improve rapidly. :)

Quote:
And, when using the book, should I try to solve the problem in my head or can I use a board?


Do both. :) You are, at this stage, like a baby learning a language. There will be plenty of things that you do not yet understand, but trying to understand them is a good thing to do. :) You will often be wrong, but getting the right answer is less important than working on the problem. So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer, Then you can look it up. Segoe, a top player 100 years ago, suggested an intermediate stage where you set up the problem on a board and try to solve the problem by playing out variations. You may want to try that.

Quote:
As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).


What you have in these cases are called status problems. What is the status of a group, dead, ko, seki, or independently alive? You have been told the answer, but you don't see why. So set up the solution diagram on the board, and test out the answer. If a group is supposed to be dead, try to make it live. If you succeed, then probably there was a way to kill that you missed. Try to find those moves. If a group is supposed to be alive, try to kill it. Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations. Important note: If you judge your efforts by whether you solve the problem or not, you will be punishing yourself instead of rewarding yourself for your work. Even if you don't solve a problem, you will learn from making the attempt. And once you have made the effort, looking at the answer can also be a learning experience. Your attempts will be fresh in your mind and you can compare them with the solution. :)

Bonne chance! :D

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #4 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:33 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 12
Thank you all!

Quote:
Get some easier problems, maybe first volume of graded go problems for beginners


I'll do that.
I think there is an SGF of it somewhere, or would you recommend using the book?

Quote:


I thought I had... But, while I must have read the part on false eyes, I did not remember and was not able to solve them at first try!

Quote:
Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.


Where can I find those (web or Android)?

Quote:
So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer,


Uhm... I give myself like, three minutes... to make a wrong move then...

Quote:
If a group is supposed to be dead, try to make it live.


I am really good at that... :D
Often, problems will say there will be a ko, and while I usually see it, the "dead" party lives nonetheless, e.g. escaping between the ko turns...

Quote:
Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations.


That's good advice.
I was trying to solve the problems (it's quite addictive, especially if there are a few with the same shape in a row), hoping to learn by that, and playing on after that to see why the group is dead, if the app allows so.
Do I get you right, that I should rather put the stones on my paper board and play both sides while trying to find the solution, and not let the app play the opposite party?

Thanks again!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #5 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:50 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 8810
Liked others: 2597
Was liked: 3005
Jika wrote:
Quote:
Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.


Where can I find those (web or Android)?


I don't play against them, but if you go to a go server and ask around, you can probably find one. There are probably some that you can download and play against locally.


Quote:
Quote:
So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer,


Uhm... I give myself like, three minutes... to make a wrong move then...


Unless you like doing that, IMO that is a waste of at least two minutes of time. When I was a kid trying to read magazines, I would ofter ask my mother what a word meant. That didn't keep me from learning English. ;)

Quote:
Quote:
Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations.


That's good advice.
I was trying to solve the problems (it's quite addictive, especially if there are a few with the same shape in a row), hoping to learn by that, and playing on after that to see why the group is dead, if the app allows so.
Do I get you right, that I should rather put the stones on my paper board and play both sides while trying to find the solution, and not let the app play the opposite party?


Either way can be valuable. Suit yourself. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #6 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:58 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5284
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 955
Was liked: 1336
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #7 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 12:30 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 528
Liked others: 46
Was liked: 184
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room.



Just don't play go while you are driving.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #8 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 1:59 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 387
Liked others: 231
Was liked: 116
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Some go servers to play online:
KGS: http://www.gokgs.com/ and download the client CGoban.
OGS: https://online-go.com/ No client program necessary, just play from your browser
IGS (Pandanet): https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet and download the client GoPanda2
Best to play on computer or laptop.


This post by sybob was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #9 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 2:31 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1338
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 188
Was liked: 590
Rank: Bel 2d KGS 3d TG 4d
KGS: Artevelde
Tygem: Knotwilg
Some beginner exercises:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerExercises

You get the solution AND the reason why they work, i.e. a general pattern (called "tesuji")


This post by Knotwilg was liked by: Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #10 Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:53 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 12
Quote:
Some go servers to play online:
KGS: http://www.gokgs.com/ and download the client CGoban.
OGS: https://online-go.com/ No client program necessary, just play from your browser
IGS (Pandanet): https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet and download the client GoPanda2
Best to play on computer or laptop.


I've had a look at their websites (wasn't able to see KGS without Java, any hints??), but did not realize it was possible to play bots there.
How can I find them or whom should I ask their?
Do they have moderators??

Quote:
Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).


Wow.

Quote:
Some beginner exercises:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerExercises

You get the solution AND the reason why they work, i.e. a general pattern (called "tesuji")


Cool!! Thank you.
I'm finding it very difficult navigating the sensei website.
There seems to be a ton of useful stuff on there, but hard to find...?

Thank you all!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #11 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:14 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 8810
Liked others: 2597
Was liked: 3005
Jika wrote:
Quote:
Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).


Wow.


You can even get toilet paper with tsumego problems printed on them.

:mrgreen:

Joaz is joshing, or he's really over the hill. :lol:

I haven't seen any tsumego toilet paper, but I have seen coasters with problems printed on them. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #12 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:50 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 387
Liked others: 231
Was liked: 116
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Jika wrote:
I've had a look at their websites (wasn't able to see KGS without Java, any hints??), but did not realize it was possible to play bots there.
How can I find them or whom should I ask their?
Do they have moderators??

Indeed, KGS or rather the KGS client program CGoban requires Java.
Should not be a problem, I hope?

At KGS, have look at the room list and select Computer Go. Most of the time, there are several bots online.
At IGS and OGS, just browse around and you'll find bots. The main room on IGS has many.
You need an account, probably, to use them. No need to contact admins/moderators.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #13 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:53 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 387
Liked others: 231
Was liked: 116
KGS: captslow
Online playing schedule: irregular and by appointment
Jika wrote:
Quote:
Always have a board in front of you.
A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

Wow.

I think the orginal comment was meant as a joke. No need to be impressed.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #14 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:59 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5284
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 955
Was liked: 1336
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Bill Spight wrote:
...
Joaz is joshing, or he's really over the hill... :lol:


The former. Although the two are not mutually exclusive.

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 44#p245244


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #15 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 10:30 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 12
@sybob:

Quote:
Indeed, KGS or rather the KGS client program CGoban requires Java.
Should not be a problem, I hope?


Unfortunately it is:
I've spent some time looking this up, and the mighty web says that all browsers but IE11 have abandoned the Java plugin (as it is considered vulnerable).
Since I can't use IE (I'm on a Linux System, Ubuntu 16.04), I see no possibility of using KGS on their website.
Maybe I can set it up with a Go client (how?)?? (I do have qGo, did not understand CGoban)

I also tried GoGrinder, but I had to install Java (not the browser plugin), and I can't open GoGrinder.jar with the Java 8 or 9 environment.

I can play Pandanet/IGS and OGS (got slaughtered by amybot24k yesterday...), so this should suffice for starters.
But advice on KGS would be great!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #16 Posted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:31 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 528
Liked others: 46
Was liked: 184
Without installing anything, you can use shin.gokgs.com. It's not as good as the regular KGS client but usable.


This post by jlt was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #17 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 7:14 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 411
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 114
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 100
KGS: Tryss
You don't need to use the web-browser plugin, just download and execute the KGS .jar file (if you have java installed on your system)

It's available here : http://files.gokgs.com/javaBin/cgoban.jar

To install java (if not done yet) :
  • sudo apt install default-jre

To execute the jar file :
  • java -jar your/folder/cgoban.jar


This post by Tryss was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Jika
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #18 Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:18 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 145
Was liked: 12
@jlt:

jlt wrote:
Without installing anything, you can use shin.gokgs.com. It's not as good as the regular KGS client but usable.


Tryss suggestion does not work for me, so I tried yours and failed!

shin.gokgs asks for a login, which I don't have.
Upon "sign up", it directs to the KGS website.
But there is no option to sign in or up!

Any idea how one gets a KGS login (without having a go client that already connects to KGS)?

Thanks!!

_________________
I'm a complete beginner. Please be patient if my questions are stupid.
Please also keep in mind that I'm not a native speaker of English: I might seem impolite or unclear without intending to. Thanks for all help, it is much needed and much appreciated!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #19 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:20 am 
Judan

Posts: 6067
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 344
Was liked: 3262
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Jika wrote:
Any idea how one gets a KGS login (without having a go client that already connects to KGS)?


You need to use the regular Java client to register. (Or get some friendly forum member to make one for you, I'm on phone atm).

You could play on OGS. It's all browser based and has lots of beginners. online-go.com


This post by Uberdude was liked by: gennan
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Books with or without board?
Post #20 Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:48 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 411
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 114
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 100
KGS: Tryss
Jika wrote:
Tryss suggestion does not work for me, so I tried yours and failed!


What failed exactly?

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group