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 Post subject: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #1 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:21 am
 Lives with ko

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Black to play. Play the best pincer.

[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . X . . . . . , .
\$\$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +----------------------[/go]

I've clicked on all intersections around and , but none was correct.
Help? Thanks!!

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #2 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:25 am
 Lives in sente

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Strange. Did you really try all intersections from a to f? The standard pincer is "a", but in some cases, other choices are possible.

[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . X . . . b d f .
\$\$ | . . . . . O . a c e .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +----------------------[/go]

Last edited by jlt on Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 This post by jlt was liked by: Jika
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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #3 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:29 am
 Judan

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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Best pincer? That's an overly specific question. A pincer, sure?

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #4 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:54 am
 Honinbo

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Jika wrote:
Black to play. Play the best pincer.

[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . X . . . . . , .
\$\$ | . . . . . O . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +----------------------[/go]

I've clicked on all intersections around and , but none was correct.
Help? Thanks!!

The question is BS. Don't worry about it.

_________________
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

My two main guides in life:
My mother and my wife.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #5 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:19 am
 Oza

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The "best" pincer, without reference to the rest of the board, has no meaning. Especially since the bots have been telling us for the last three years that fundamentally we should not want to pincer. Where did you get the question and what have you been clicking in to try to find the answer?

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #6 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:38 am
 Lives in gote

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Jika, do you not have anyone who will sit down and play go with you?

_________________
David Bogie, Boise ID
I play go, I ride a recumbent, of course I use Macintosh.

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 Post subject: #7 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:02 am
 Honinbo

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Quote:
do you not have anyone who will sit down and play go with you?
Hi David, I don't know about Jika's situation, but statistically, for most places, this is not feasible.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #8 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:53 am
 Lives with ko

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@jlt:
All your suggestions a-e are considered correct

@ez4u:
I'm getting those regular stupid questions from 321go
The exercise before that one was to pick one of 3-4 suggested intersections as "best move";
now they leave the solution open, I'm lost.
I tried between the black and white stone, and around the white stone (because of pincer, yes).
But, obviously, I did not try far enough.
I'm thinking now, pincer means "taking the white stone between two black stones".
But I thought it would be closer to the white, like squashing it to the side or the bottom, directly squeezing it...

@bogiesan:
I play go, I ride a recumbent (trike), of course I use a Tuxedo (Linux-optimized hardware)

And, no, I have nobody to play go with.
But - I might have soon!!
A friend saw my board yesterday and mentioned "oh, I've had one like that [mine is cardboard] for years, but never managed to learn how to play. Are the rules complicated?" - "Noooo, the rules are really simple!"

If you meant: An experienced player? No. There is a group in the nearest university town, but they play in the evenings, when buses are rare, I have no car, and a cab/taxi costs 47,- Euro ONE WAY.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #9 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:58 am
 Judan

Posts: 6543
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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d

 This post by Uberdude was liked by: Jika
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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #10 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:37 am
 Lives in sente

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Common continuation:

[go]\$\$W
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 1 2 . O . X . . .
\$\$ | . . 7 5 6 8 . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #11 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:11 am
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@Uberdude: Thanks - but looking this up I'm getting really confused (seeing counter-pincers and high vs low pincers) about the use of "high" and "low".
Are low pincers the ones on the same line as the pincered stone, and high ones the line closer to the centre, on the line of the uhm, stone of the same colour?

So, a,b,c would be low, d,e,f high?

@flt: Could you please explain a bit?
I can't see when/where the pincer happened in your diagram. What move number, please?

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #12 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:23 am
 Honinbo

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Jika wrote:
@Uberdude: Thanks - but looking this up I'm getting really confused (seeing counter-pincers and high vs low pincers) about the use of "high" and "low".
Are low pincers the ones on the same line as the pincered stone, and high ones the line closer to the centre, on the line of the uhm, stone of the same colour?

So, a,b,c would be low, d,e,f high?

@flt: Could you please explain a bit?
I can't see when/where the pincer happened in your diagram. What move number, please?

Typically a "low" pincer is on the 3rd line. A "high" pincer is on the 4th line. This is if you count the lines, starting from the edge of the board (the edge is line number 1).

Generally speaking, a pincer can be played to prevent the opponent from forming a base with his stone. In the original problem, white approached the black 4-4 stone. If black responds on the left, white has the freedom to extend along the bottom to make a base (i.e. a safe group).

A pincer messes with white's potential to make a base, inducing white to choose a different option.

_________________
be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #13 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:35 am
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@Jika: the pincer wasn't numbered. I reproduce the diagram and mark the pincer with a circle:

[go]\$\$W
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 1 2 . O . B . . .
\$\$ | . . 7 5 6 8 . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #14 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:36 am
 Judan

Posts: 6543
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Low pincers are on the 3rd line (from the edge, so a/c/e in jlt's diagram), high are on the 4th line (b/d/f). A pincer is a move on the other side of the opponent stone from where your existing stone(s) are: you are approaching it from 2 sides, like a pincer movement in a battle.

So here is a pincer: black has stones on either side of white . The main strategic thing a pincer does is make it hard for the pincered stone to extend along the side in the direction of the pincer to make a base (space for eyes and thus safety) in that direction.
[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +--------------------------[/go]

Compare to if black just answered with patient knight move , white could extend on side to make a base:
[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . 2 . . 4 . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
\$\$ +--------------------------[/go]

A counter pincer is a move which pincers the pincer So could be described as a counter-pincer, because it pincers with and . It stops from extending along the side around there to make a base. But it didn't help and is separate from it so black could just link up at a to make his stones safe.
[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . 1 . a . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So if white wants to attack it is important to separate it from first. So white could jump out, black probably defends at (or one to left) and then white can counter-pincer at and can't connect to / . With these kind of pincer and then counter-pincer moves it is common for running fights to develop, with both players having groups which are weak.
[go]\$\$B
\$\$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . 2 . 3 . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
\$\$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

 This post by Uberdude was liked by: Jika
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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #15 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:02 am
 Lives with ko

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Thank you all!

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #16 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:54 pm
 Lives in gote

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Jika wrote:
@bogiesan:
And, no, I have nobody to play go with.
But - I might have soon!!
A friend saw my board yesterday and mentioned "oh, I've had one like that [mine is cardboard] for years, but never managed to learn how to play. Are the rules complicated?" - "Noooo, the rules are really simple!"

I appreciate your situation, I think most of us have suffered through similar. Best of luck getting your friend to play!

_________________
David Bogie, Boise ID
I play go, I ride a recumbent, of course I use Macintosh.

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 Post subject: Re: Easy 4 U, too tricky 4 me #17 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:04 pm
 Honinbo

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Tygem: 커비라고해
bogiesan wrote:
Jika wrote:
@bogiesan:
And, no, I have nobody to play go with.
But - I might have soon!!
A friend saw my board yesterday and mentioned "oh, I've had one like that [mine is cardboard] for years, but never managed to learn how to play. Are the rules complicated?" - "Noooo, the rules are really simple!"

I appreciate your situation, I think most of us have suffered through similar. Best of luck getting your friend to play!

If that doesn’t work, I’ll play you online sometime if you’d like. Or we can play a Malkovich game here

_________________
be immersed

 This post by Kirby was liked by: Jika
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