Rules of Thumb

Thunkd · #1

I've heard a few rules of thumb that seem helpful. For example, one was that you shouldn't jump more than n+1 spaces away from a wall of length n. Another was that you should continue a contact fight until your group has 5 liberties.

Is there a collection of these rules of thumbs? Or maybe everyone could post the ones that they know here.

Apoah · #2

You will probably find what you are looking for here:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?GoProverbs

There are many of these and they can be quite helpful. Enjoy your journey!

Chew Terr · #3

Thunkd wrote:

For example, one was that you shouldn't jump more than n+1 spaces away from a wall of length n.

Not to be pedantic, but I don't like this one. Perhaps "A jump of n+1 spaces from a wall of height n has an invasion point." Bruce Wilcox refers to this n+1 as a "safety extension" essentially. This means that it is the minimum safest extension you should try to take under pressure. If your opponent has no stones around, it's not unreasonable to extend further. For example, if you have a star point in the top left, and your opponent has one in the top right, it's a really good move to approach his stone directly. While your approach can be pincered and cut off from your top left (of course), that doesn't mean that the approach doesn't have added merit because of its relation to the top left. Essentially, the more severe the invasion would be, the more you should worry about it. That's a truism, buit still true.

Bill Spight · #4

Chew Terr wrote:

Thunkd wrote:

For example, one was that you shouldn't jump more than n+1 spaces away from a wall of length n.

Not to be pedantic, but I don't like this one. Perhaps "A jump of n+1 spaces from a wall of height n has an invasion point." Bruce Wilcox refers to this n+1 as a "safety extension" essentially. This means that it is the minimum safest extension you should try to take under pressure. If your opponent has no stones around, it's not unreasonable to extend further. For example, if you have a star point in the top left, and your opponent has one in the top right, it's a really good move to approach his stone directly. While your approach can be pincered and cut off from your top left (of course), that doesn't mean that the approach doesn't have added merit because of its relation to the top left. Essentially, the more severe the invasion would be, the more you should worry about it. That's a truism, buit still true.

Let's be pedantic.

They are not jumps, they are extensions along the third line, extensions that make a base. It is not unusual to make longer extensions, particularly from a single stone, but then you are not making a base. In the example given, the move is an approach move that happens to also be an extension. Depending upon how things develop, it may be necessary to come back and make a base. Conversely, it is not unusual to make a smaller extension, particularly from a wall of 3 stones or more. In such cases that prevents an opponent's move from being sente.

freegame · #5

Quote:

Is there a collection of these rules of thumbs? Or maybe everyone could post the ones that they know here.

I have written a book that makes use of a whole bunch of those "rules of thumb" (proverbs and statements)
Here is a link to my books webpage freegame's Teaching School
You can download the preview and have a look at the content to see which proverbs and statements are discussed.

Numsgil · #6

Thunkd wrote:

I've heard a few rules of thumb that seem helpful. For example, one was that you shouldn't jump more than n+1 spaces away from a wall of length n. Another was that you should continue a contact fight until your group has 5 liberties.

Is there a collection of these rules of thumbs? Or maybe everyone could post the ones that they know here.

Speaking of Bruce Wilcox, he has a formulation of the wall extension rule that I find easier to use in actual games:

You want to make a jump that is the height of the wall from the edge. Start counting over from the top stone of the wall. Remove one space for every defect in the wall on the third line or above. Specifically, a wall like this is confusing with the rule as it's usually known and as you quote it.

You might not be sure how far to extend. 'a' is probably the right point. If you follow the rule as you know it you might guess 'b', but that's a bit too far to do what you might expect it to do. If you think of it as two separate walls, you might want to do 'c', but that doesn't take in to account the thickness of the top three stones.

(yes, this is an artificial example):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . c . a . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

See, the idea is that if black invades behind 'a' (such as at 'c'), he may or may not be able to live, but either way you can enclose him and build up even more influence. You subtract a point for defects in the wall because the invader can use it as a forcing move to aid in escaping.

If you extend further, you allow invasions to probably escape. If you can gain profit on the other side, though, then you're really sketching out a grand moyo, so you're less concerned about whether an invasion in front of the wall can escape. The whole idea of the moyo is to invite an invasion so you can chase it around in profit. So it can still be a good move (or even the best move), but the tactics and expectations you have are different.

If you extend too close, you're overconcentrated.

...

This is Wilcox's 'books'. The contact fights one expands on the 5 liberties idea, explains why, gives some quizes to make sure you understand the idea, etc. The sector fights one talks about walls (and moyos and attacking weak groups). Both are about the size of a proper book (they're actually interactive books (ie: software)). The EZ-GO is an actual book which predates the other two, and is really a grand bible of all sorts of different ideas about go.

They're all aimed at players with no or limited reading ability, so he presents easily understood rules that are very easy to use in an actual game (eg: you could program a computer to use them, which was the idea originally). If you follow the rules you'll usually stay out of trouble. Supplemented with strong reading, they form the basis of proper play.

If you have the money, I'd recommend all three. They're very different from other books in content and style, so I wouldn't worry about whether it would overlap with an existing book in your library. And the rules help make most of the other go books on the market make sense (the chapter about 'the stones go walking' in 'Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go' only made sense after I had done Wilcox's 'Contact Fights').

DrStraw · #7

If you want to be a good go player the best rule of thumb is "Don't hold the stones with you thumb".

Bill Spight · #8

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . c . a . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

shapenaji · #9

Hmm, Don't beat your opponent with a stick wider than your thumb?

Numsgil · **#10**

Bill Spight wrote:

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

It's hard to come up with a good example to illustrate the differences. I was trying to think of a wall with a defect and that leans backwards (as most walls usually do). But the defect is probably a bit too fatal to leave.

Chew Terr · **#11**

Numsgil wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

It's hard to come up with a good example to illustrate the differences. I was trying to think of a wall with a defect and that leans backwards (as most walls usually do). But the defect is probably a bit too fatal to leave.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . c . a . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I think you meant more like this?

Numsgil · **#12**

Chew Terr wrote:

I think you meant more like this?

Yes, much better.

Bill Spight · **#13**

Chew Terr wrote:

Numsgil wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

It's hard to come up with a good example to illustrate the differences. I was trying to think of a wall with a defect and that leans backwards (as most walls usually do). But the defect is probably a bit too fatal to leave.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . c . a . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

I think you meant more like this?

Ah! A wall that does not require an extension.

We were just talking about that in another thread.

Chew Terr · **#14**

Bill Spight wrote:

Ah! A wall that does not require an extension.

We were just talking about that in another thread.

Yes, and I'm STILL working on understanding that thread, at even a baseline level. =D Great stuff though, thanks!

Numsgil · **#15**

Bill Spight wrote:

Ah! A wall that does not require an extension.

We were just talking about that in another thread.

(Cross linking the other thread.)

But supposing you wanted to make an extension, with the idea being to form a moyo, where you can enclose any invasions. Then the rule of thumb comes in to play.

But yeah, I'm with Chew. I still don't really understand the idea of a wall that doesn't need an extension. It may or may not need one for life, but it needs one to be useful, yeah? I'm under the general impression that if you're building a wall you need either sente to play an extension or an existing stone to act as an extension to let you build the wall in gote. Or a weak group you're building up strength to attack. Or else the wall is just a group, worth maybe a point per stone.

Eg: As I understand it this is a terrible idea for black. Black can't really attack white's other group, and any extension is too crowded. The wall has plenty of eyespace, so it probably won't die. And strictly speaking black will probably get at least as many point as white got in the corner, but in terms of influencing the rest of the game positively, it's pretty lacking.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 'a' is move 11 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . a . . . . O . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

EDIT: Ugh, NOW it's terrible for black.

Chew Terr · **#16**

Numsgil wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Ah! A wall that does not require an extension.

We were just talking about that in another thread.

(Cross linking the other thread.)

But supposing you wanted to make an extension, with the idea being to form a moyo, where you can enclose any invasions. Then the rule of thumb comes in to play.

But yeah, I'm with Chew. I still don't really understand the idea of a wall that doesn't need an extension. It may or may not need one for life, but it needs one to be useful, yeah? I'm under the general impression that if you're building a wall you need either sente to play an extension or an existing stone to act as an extension to let you build the wall in gote. Or a weak group you're building up strength to attack. Or else the wall is just a group, worth maybe a point per stone.

Eg: As I understand it this is a terrible idea for black. Black can't really attack white's other group, and any extension is too crowded. The wall has plenty of eyespace, so it probably won't die. And strictly speaking black will probably get at least as many point as white got in the corner, but in terms of influencing the rest of the game positively, it's pretty lacking.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 'a' is move 11 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O 1 . a . . . . O . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

EDIT: Ugh, NOW it's terrible for black.

I think part of the difference is that the top is already small, so blocking the other way is bigger. If the left wall was also tiny, it seems that this variation would be less bad (though the double-hane version would likely be better in that case).

Numsgil · **#17**

Chew Terr wrote:

I think part of the difference is that the top is already small, so blocking the other way is bigger. If the left wall was also tiny, it seems that this variation would be less bad (though the double-hane version would likely be better in that case).

But then instead of building a wall you'd try to do something like this instead, maybe. Claim the corner, and build a squatter wall that has room for an extension for moyo at 'b' still.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 'a' is move 11 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a O 1 . . . . b . O . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 9 2 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 4 3 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

EDIT: Ah yeah, you already mentioned the double hane version. I should learn to read.

Bill Spight · **#18**

Numsgil wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

It's hard to come up with a good example to illustrate the differences. I was trying to think of a wall with a defect and that leans backwards (as most walls usually do). But the defect is probably a bit too fatal to leave.

I don't think that you can rely upon rules of thumb when you have a wall with defects.

Numsgil · **#19**

Bill Spight wrote:

Numsgil wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Hmmm. I would kind of like to extend to :b1:

.

It's hard to come up with a good example to illustrate the differences. I was trying to think of a wall with a defect and that leans backwards (as most walls usually do). But the defect is probably a bit too fatal to leave.

I don't think that you can rely upon rules of thumb when you have a wall with defects.

So long as the defect does not allow your opponent to break the link, I think you can. It's not always worth it to burn a move to remove a defect on a wall, so it's important to know what to do in that case.

Or here's a case with less drastic defects. Suppose black wants to extend from his 'wall'. What's the minimal distance to do so that is not over concentrated? Black is missing a stone on the third line, and a stone on the 5th line. So that's two defects. The wall is 6 stones high. So black wants at least a 6-2=4 space extension from his wall. If he extends further, a white invasion can escape. And the wall would probably come under attack, then, so making this 'safety' extension is probably the best play.

In theory, with this extension below, white can't escape with an invasion at 2 (although the tactics can become a bit hairy).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . 3 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Solomon · **#20**

"Respond to attachment with hane":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

"The empty triangle is bad", "The one-space jump is never bad":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . O . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X O 4 X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 . X . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 1 X X X O . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . O O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

"Never ignore a shoulder hit":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X X 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | X X X X O O . . . , . . . . . 1 2 . . | $$ | X X X X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Don't bother with rules of thumbs, they will only give you tunnel vision.

Rules of Thumb

Who is online