It is currently Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:23 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: trouble with scoring a game
Post #1 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:22 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Hello, I'm new to this forum and I have a question. I recently played a game of go on a website and I didn't know the rule for designating opposing stones within your territory when the game is being scored. After I designated two groups of my opponent, the game report said I won by about 100 points. Does a group have to have 2 eyes? Does it have to connect with the edges of the board? Please answer this because I don't want to be ripping people off of a good game because I'm accidentally cheating.

Galen

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #2 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:04 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 702
Liked others: 165
Was liked: 104
Rank: German 2 dan
You should remove only "dead" stones, i.e. stones that cannot be saved against capture. All other stones are alive and remain. You should play it out if the situation is not clear to you, in order to determine the "cannot be saved" part. This can be learned quickly from players who have passed beyond the beginner stage.

Territory are then those points that "reach" stones of a given colour.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------
$$ | . . X O . |
$$ | . . X O . |
$$ | X . X O . |
$$ | . X O O . |
$$ | . X O . . |
$$ -----------[/go]


For example, this would be a finished game. I mark black territory with 'b' and white with 'w':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------
$$ | b b X O w |
$$ | b b X O w |
$$ | X b X O w |
$$ | b X O O w |
$$ | b X O w w |
$$ -----------[/go]


The following is unfinished:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . |
$$ | X . X O . |
$$ | . X O O . |
$$ | . X O . . |
$$ -----------[/go]


I mark the territory again:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------
$$ | . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . |
$$ | X . X O . |
$$ | b X O O . |
$$ | b X O . . |
$$ -----------[/go]


All other points still reach stones of both colours. The players should close off their territory on the top.

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #3 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:07 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1556
Liked others: 365
Was liked: 289
Rank: 2d-2k
galen wrote:
Does a group have to have 2 eyes?


Yes. Do you already know, what an eye is?


galen wrote:
Does it have to connect with the edges of the board?


No. Two eyes and the group lives.

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #4 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:47 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 451
Location: Portland, OR USA
Liked others: 257
Was liked: 287
KGS: wms
galen wrote:
Does a group have to have 2 eyes?
Sort of. It needs to have the ability to make two eyes. For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------
$$ | . X O . . |
$$ | x X O O O |
$$ | x X O X X |
$$ | . X O X . |
$$ | X X O X O |
$$ | O O O X O |
$$ | . . O X . |
$$ -----------[/go]
In the upper left, black can make two eyes. No matter where white moves, black can play one of the two "x" points and create two eyes. So the upper left is alive.

In the lower right, black cannot split into two eyes. In the lower right, black is dead.

White's group in the middle, meanwhile, has two eyes already, and is alive.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:20 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 5
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Thanks so much for answering! I understand now. Well by the rules I accidentally cheated against the player I played, the game should have been around a 50 point victory for me instead. We were both beginners and were both confused so this helped me alot! Thanks again!

Galen

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #6 Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:52 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 263
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Liked others: 32
Was liked: 10
Rank: KGS 5-kyu
GD Posts: 60
The way I like to think of it is that alive/dead is not an extra rule but just a shortcut. It saves you from having to methodically plunk down stones on all the liberties of groups that can't avoid capture anyway. (But of course you can still do that if the players don't agree to the "shortcut".)

EDIT: Whoops, sorry, I didn't notice how old this thread was.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #7 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:42 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 643
Location: Munich, Germany
Liked others: 115
Was liked: 101
Rank: KGS 3k
KGS: LiKao / Loki
MountainGo wrote:
The way I like to think of it is that alive/dead is not an extra rule but just a shortcut. It saves you from having to methodically plunk down stones on all the liberties of groups that can't avoid capture anyway. (But of course you can still do that if the players don't agree to the "shortcut".)

EDIT: Whoops, sorry, I didn't notice how old this thread was.

Unfortunately you can't do than in japanese/territory rules without losing points. You need to use hypothetical play there.

_________________
Sanity is for the weak.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: trouble with scoring a game
Post #8 Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:47 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 299
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 17
Rank: KGS 10k DGS 8k
GD Posts: 396
Helel wrote:
I can see some people spending years there! :twisted:


I don't see who you're referring to...

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group