Guys,

I've been on-off in Go for ages. Never really that long off, but seldom that long or that deep "in", either. Life kept happening. I've managed to keep a very low-key steady rhythm for a while (6 years) that might be increasing. Sometime ago, I got away from 4-4 because I kept seeing immediate 3-3 time and time again (sure, more positions than atoms in the universe, but they all started 4-4, 3-3). 3-4 usually ended with me crawling on the 2d, so I tried 5-4, 5-3 and such, to force me up.

In the meantime, I met someone and we set up a mini Go club, where I mostly have to play with handicap (2-4 seems ideal). So, all said and done, my 2-line crawling seems to be kind of forgotten.

A wee bit too much? Maybe? I keep finding myself with huge moyo. I got one in Japan this summer worth some 90 pts (and there was a smaller... 20? pts territory rightly centered on the left half). My last game had a 70+ stone territory, despite a mistake that cost me about a dozen points.

I'm not ready for this. Sure, when it works I get huge points. When it doesn't, it's slice and dice time. Do you guys know of any pointers for timing? When to solve shape defects, when to expand, for instance. The limits of such games. How to include some more territoriality into my games (specially starting from handicap)... And so on and so forth.

Thanks; take care.

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一碁一会

Much more than the kind of game, the key points to think about in many positions are the distance between one’s own groups and the opponent’s, the opposing (reciprocal or relative, if you wish) strength of the groups, and the value of the space that is contested.

When there is a big moyo, then the game will revolve around it. There is a kind of synergy that makes the space in a big moyo more valuable than anything else that is usually available in a given position. A small moyo is something completely different. The value of the space in a small moyo is just similar to what can be available elsewhere. It is not great to hurry to play many moves in a small moyo but some moves will be bigger than others. One example of a move that is bigger is the last move that is needed to make it into territory.

Many people dislike playing the side with the big moyo because it feels like it only takes one oversight for the whole thing to crumble. You will also have to make sure that it is big enough and it is hard to count to over 100. Weaknesses in the moyo or elsewhere on the board also often turn into a burden that is too much to carry around. Some people, known as moyo players, have a diametrical opposite point of view. The good thing is that there are other kinds of games, and you don’t have to go for a big moyo if you don’t like to.

Maybe instead of thinking about how to play a big moyo game (or any other kind) you could think about how to make strong groups and how to play with strong groups. For a starting point you could look for opportunities to make strong groups (out of groups that are not strong yet) by surrounding a little bit of territory. This isn’t complicated! If you surround just 10 points of territory, then that is usually enough to make a completely live group. It is not necessarily the most effective or efficient way to make a strong group but it is a starting point and once you have strong groups, that have access into the center of the board (or where the next battle is), then you will find that you have more freedom to play wherever and whatever you want. Next would be to desire to play the right kind of things on the Go board (fix your worst weakness, play the biggest place, use the opponent’s worst weakness, …).

You're asking some big questions here! Can you post some game records? It's much easier to give advice if we can see an actual position.

The sidebar gives your rank as "OGS ddk". Is that still the case? I'm asking because in the OGS forums, I've seen a few ddk games where both players build a wall and then just stay on their own side, and generally play a bit too passively. So big moyos happen not because it's a good strategy, but because people aren't cutting or invading or playing tenuki when they should.

The most fundamental realization I ever had is that Go is not about surrounding more empty points but about ending up with more alive stones.

Perhaps this thought can do similar wonders for you. Otherwise, as xela says, give us some positions to work with.

Sort of. OGS claims I'm 9k or so, but that's mostly 13x13 games, and I haven't played there in a while. I've been playing face to face, I'm afraid only once a month, against 14k-9k. With that idea in mind, I _think_ I'm about 12k.

This should give you 4 games of mine this last year. I think the most accurate handicap is 3 stones against the 9k. 2 stones against my near peer is too much, one of them beats me comfortable with none. The 5H one was a 3-way simul with the above 9k, and it was way too much; I don't know where he got the idea.

Anyhow, in the games I got seriously invaded, I was mostly aware of the defect. I didn't think it was the right moment to solve it, though. Besides blunders (and more L&D), that seems to be my main obstacle.

kvasir,

regarding "thinking about how to play a big moyo"... it's not that I plan to, but it's what keeps happening. So I should learn to do it properly.

Thanks. Sorry for the delay, but I had to find time to check for the pics. Take care.

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一碁一会

Oh dear, you took me very literally! It's not just the position I want to look at. It's the flow of the game: how you respond to the opponent's moves, how you make decisions, the process by which you got to that position. I was hoping for a game record move by move, whether it's SGF or handwritten numbers on a piece of paper. Without seeing the actual moves, I can't say much based on just a snapshot of the position, sorry.

I was afraid of that. I don't have SGFs of recent games. I'll try to film a game later this month and turn it into an SGF/kifu; we'll see what happens. But I tried playing and drawing my kifu once and it was a disaster. I'll have to try in some controlled situation one of these days.

Thanks anyhow, and sorry; take care.

_________________
一碁一会

Food for thought: are you "accepting" influence in these games, or is it being thrust upon you by opponents who are scooping out the corners and sides?

If it's the latter, then you may want to focus on your tactics to get a more even result around the edges.

I will tell you what my teacher told me forty some years ago (although I did not appreciate this until recently):
Go is not about winning. If you need to win, find another game to play.
Influence is far more important than power.
To understand influence you must first learn to see it.
Handicap stones are called that because they handicap the black as much as the white. That is, learning to use the handicap stones efficiently requires understanding influence becasue they cannot be used for territory immediately.
When playing, keep your hands out of the bowl (or away from your mouse). Think instead of grabbing a stone. Decide where you're going to play, Pick up a stone, Place the stone.
Build strong groups that can easily form two eyes. Do not build weak groups.
Defend weak groups before they are attacked.
Find moves that both defend weak groups and attack the opponent's weak groups.
Surround your opponent from a safe distance.
Keep your stones connected unless, of course, you are sacrificing them.

If you can stop getting your groups killed (by learning when they are safe), if you can keep your stones connected while surrounding your opponent from a distance, influence will magically appear in your positions. If you can see the influence, you can wield it like a formidable weapon.

Try entering the moves into an SGF editor from memory at the end of the day. On a first go, you might only get the first 20 or 30 moves. But with practice, you'll be surprised at how easy it is to remember 100 moves, even several hours later. (I was sceptical the first time someone told me this. You might be sceptical too. Just try it. There's nothing to lose!) We don't need all of the endgame; 100 moves would be plenty for this conversation.

Reconstructing a game by yourself may be difficult, but it's much easier with your partner.

I'll have to find a way. After the game, I have to get on a train for a... 50...ish m ride, then either walk or ride again for 10-15m, deal with supper / try to relax...

In this regard, what I've found recently, which is not quite the same but should transfer, is that I can remember Pro games much better if I stop, really stop, and consider what every stone seems to be doing. My perception of what it actually does is probably wrong (DDK being DDK), but it helps tremendously. I have to find what kind of games I find easier to remember, because I've tried it several times with the Atomic Bomb game and... Well, I am better at it than before, but... In a game I reviewed recently between Sugiuchi 8p and Ogawa (then 4p), I'm finding it much easier to do. I had a similar feeling on a game, last year, with Takagawa and.... Hashimoto, IIRC. Thing is I'm not sure if I'm not remembering the Meijin 3.2 game because it feels too familiar and I've developed bad habits around it or because there's something in the game itself my brain can't wrap itself around.

Thanks.

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一碁一会

Otherwise take a photo every 20-30 moves, it will help you to reconstruct the game.

Indeed.

It's a very useful skill. In fact you (Ferran) have an advantage over the rest of us by playing live only: by trying to recollect your game, you are activating your brain, while the rest of us just rely on our online interfaces. We may next delve into variations, with or without AI, depriving ourselves of the opportunity to imagine our own variations.

I experienced my biggest leap in strength when I did exactly that: I played FTF games against a friend/rival, then replayed them on a physical board and analyzed what went well or not so well. It was a major time investment but it paid off.