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Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13019		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mumen [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I am reading Cho Chikun's book on the 3-3 point. What do you guys think of playing their in the opening?
Author:  skydyr [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
It's probably better for white as a strategy to claim 30 points plus komi with two moves and challenge black to make it up on the rest of the board, than it would be to use as black.
Author:  xed_over [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
its so close to the edge of the board, I'm afraid it'll fall off
Author:  Nyanjilla [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I did used to play it a lot as white, since it seems to simplify the situation and can sometimes result in a huge moyo when the opponent chickens out of approaching closely. Not sure why I stopped.
Author:  Polama [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I play the 3-3 pretty regularly. It has a reputation for being 'territorial', but I think the more interesting property is its fast development. Plunk down the 3-3 and you usually don't have to worry about that corner for a little while.
Author:  jeromie [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
It's obviously a valid strategy, but I haven't tried it in my own games. If I were to use it, it would probably be in conjunction with a grab for influence elsewhere on the board. Have you tried it out?
Author:  DrStraw [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I played it almost exclusively for several years about 10 years ago. I still play it occasionally. In fact, I am playing a game right now on DGS where both players started with diagonal 3-3s.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Takemiya Sensei wrote:
It's so close to the edge of the board, I'm afraid it'll fall off.
Author:  DrStraw [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
xed_over wrote:
its so close to the edge of the board, I'm afraid it'll fall off


You must have an awful time with 2 point yose plays on the edge.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I love the 3-4 enclosures too much. I don't like any of the 33 enclosures.
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
US Go Congress 2014, New York City
Park Jungsang 9d taught a handful of lectures, packed with the latest fuseki and joseki innovations. His knowledge on opening patterns was amazing - probably because he is constantly giving commentary on BadukTV for professional games.

My personal observation at the time was that these opening patterns were well thought out, but often started with moves on the 4-4 and 3-4 points. When the opportunity came up, I asked him why the 3-4 and 4-4 points were more common in professional games than the 5-3 and 5-4 points - in my own games, playing on the 5-3 and/or 5-4 often led to interesting games. He thought about the question a bit, and replied that the 5-3 and 5-4 points were valid strategies in the opening, but did not offer as much flexibility as the 3-4 or 4-4 points. When opening with 3-4 and/or 4-4, it is easier to adjust your strategy based on your opponent's response - with the 5-4 and/or 5-3 points... not quite as much. I didn't ask him specifically about the 3-3 point, but I would imagine that his response might be similar: playing the 3-3 point is a valid strategy (territory - maybe speed in the opening, too), but perhaps doesn't allow for as much flexibility as the 4-4 and/or 3-4.

If this is actually true for professionals, I doubt that it's true for most amateurs - probably we know little enough about the 3-3, 5-4, 5-3, etc., that there's plenty of room for flexibility in our games. My take on this, then, is that as amateurs, it's probably good for us to try out these less popular opening moves - we might get a better sense for how they work.

After all, even if playing the 3-3 doesn't suit your style - how do you know until you've tried it out and gotten to know what kind of game it results in?
Author:  erislover [ Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
I pretty much exclusively play one 3-3 point and one 4-4 point. Sometimes 3-3 and 3-4 but this is very rare. As white or black, it doesn't matter. I love the balance of territory and influence and lack of direction implied in the stones.

It seems to be out of fashion right now in pro play. I suspect it is because it doesn't give a good fighting position in pretty much any variation. When I play as well as a pro, I will probably have to drop it. ;)
Author:  gowan [ Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
You notice pros don't play openings beginning with 3-3 very much any more. I think it is because the 3-3 moves are too slow for subsequent development. They don't give much influence down the sides or building moyos because of the shoulder hit possibility
Author:  Bantari [ Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
Mumen wrote:
I am reading Cho Chikun's book on the 3-3 point. What do you guys think of playing their in the opening?

I love it and play it a lot on the servers.

Have great results with it against weaker players - no surprise there.
Against players of my own level or stronger, I usually get killed.

This makes me think I do not really understand 3-3 very well yet. But it is so much fun.
Author:  Uberdude [ Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Who loves playing the 3-3 point?
Alexander Dinerstein 3p quite likes to play it. He played it yesterday in the preliminary of the 2nd European Grand Slam tournament in Berlin and beat Andrij Kravets 6d. He played it in the game currently underway against Ali Jabarain 1p (broadcast by user GrandSlam4 on KGS). He also played it in his game against me on OGS a while back, that game's opening was rather similar to Ali's today.
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