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 Post subject: triple ko
Post #1 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:00 pm 
Dies in gote

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Hi,

I was looking over a game I played and was messing about with variations in the lower left.

https://imgur.com/a/8WKgR

I somehow managed to create a triple ko.

So both groups have an outside ko and there is an internal ko between both.

Am I right in thinking that if either side plays away then the opponent can fill in the others external ko.

This would make it an external ko and direct ko between groups. So it would be a loss for the player who played away since its life due to double ko.

Ko's are so confusing! especially multiple between groups.

Question : If this happened on a go server would both parties just ask for a draw (if the ko was big enough that to lose it would lose the game) ?

I had a look here https://senseis.xmp.net/?DoubleKo but not sure what kind of example I have in my image.

Thanks. Mybe I've missed something...

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Post #2 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:34 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X O . O , . . . . .
$$ | X . X O . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . O X . B O . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X O . O , . . . . .
$$ | X 1 . O . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X O 2 . X 3 . O . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Cycle
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O O O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X O . O , . . . . .
$$ | X . 4 O . X O . . . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O X X X O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X O . 5 X . 6 O . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: triple ko
Post #3 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:52 am 
Dies in gote

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Thanks EdLee!

So if the player instead of retake their external ko after the forced 3 move sequence. decides to try and kill, then it turns into a real ko and they have to find the first ko threat. hmmm,

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Post #4 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 am 
Honinbo
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Seems: if one side is losing, then no-result is better than a loss ;
if one side is winning, then they have to count the ko threats to decide between ko or no-result ? :)

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 Post subject: Re: triple ko
Post #5 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:36 am 
Judan

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There was a famous game in the Samsung cup semi-final (deciding 3rd game) by Luo Xihe against Choi Cheolhan where he had a triple ko and could have gone for a no result, instead he generated big ko threats and turned it into a real ko, which he then lost, but got enough elsewhere to win (he'd also picked up quite some profit in the buildup to the triple ko semeai). Mr GoCommentary.com did a nice video review: http://www.gocommentary.com/free-videos ... olhan.html. Amazing game.


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: triple ko
Post #6 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:47 pm 
Lives with ko

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It seems to me that it behaves like a triple ko.

In Japanese rule, if one of the players plays elsewhere, he dies. So the cycle is forced.
In a server, an admin must be called.

In AGA, French and British rule, it behaves like a normal ko.

In Chinese rules, the players can choose to play the ko or call an admin,

Not sure about SST or New Zealand rules.

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