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 Post subject: Learning Tesuji
Post #1 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:27 am 
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I was wondering how any of you learn tesuji?
For example; I have the book 'Tesuji' from the Elementary series. But I find it hard to learn much from it. So how do you use a book like that to learn to see the tesuji in your own games?

I can always follow the example and see why it works. I can sometimes solve the problems in the book, but then you even know what to look for. And if you can't solve it, do you do them again a few days later and see if you can do it this time? Does that actually help in your own games, where the situation is gonna be different anyway?

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Post #2 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:57 am 
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I know a lot of people have gotten a lot from "Tesuji", but I never really took to it. I much prefer learning from doing L&D problems, which may contain tesuji as part of the solution, or from tesuji problems specifically. I think there are a good mix in Graded go problems for beginners, which I believe you are already working through. Some other favourites of mine are Get strong at tesuji, 200 Tesuji Problems and 200 Endgame Problems (both might be out of print? And likely too difficult for you aside from the first section) and the Lee Changho Tesuji books, vol 4 (ladders and nets) and the first part of vol 1 (mostly snap backs, throw ins, other shortage of liberty problems) should be good for DDK.

I know that for me, I need to see the same patterns repeated over and over before it starts to sink in. It's no good for me to just try and learn a particular situation where a certain move might work, I need to have seen it enough times that in game it will stand out to me, like, "hmm, there looks like there's something in this shape..." then, if I've solved enough problems or seen it in games enough, my reading will be guided to the most likely moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #3 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:53 am 
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Ian Butler wrote:
I was wondering how any of you learn tesuji?
For example; I have the book 'Tesuji' from the Elementary series. But I find it hard to learn much from it. So how do you use a book like that to learn to see the tesuji in your own games?


I think more recent books are probably better resources than the Elementary series. I've found the Level Up, Jump Level Up series from Baduktopia to be a superior way to pick up and reinforce basic techniques including tesuji. The WBaduk tsumego set is a great way to test that you've acquired these techniques without hints.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #4 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:46 am 
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Tesuji have a major function and belong to a major shape class. Learning tesuji means learning both as general concepts so that either can be applied when applicable for a next move candidate or possible move in a variation during tactical reading. Knowing tesuji allows consideration of more potentially good move candidates. A tesuji can be or not be the best next move. To decide, it is good to know possible tesuji instead of overlooking certain functions or shapes entirely. Tesuji are often inapplicable or bad when ordinary moves are better. Therefore, also study the ordinary kinds of moves.


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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #5 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:05 am 
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I agree with swannod that Level Up and Jump Level Up (though I only have direct experience with the latter) are really super for drilling particular tesuji concepts. Get Strong at Tesuji is also a great collection of standard techniques; a fair amount of it might be over your head right now but the problems all have difficulty levels attached so you can start by doing just the one or two star problems.

Mostly you learn to look for patterns and candidate moves (e.g., playing on the fourth point of a bamboo joint), and then learn what the critical variations are likely to look like. This is something that the Level Up books are really good at.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #6 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Cool, I'm gonna check out the Level Up books. Are the kyu levels mentioned on Sensei Library correct for the level up books? Because I don't think it's necessary for me to buy the first couple of books.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #7 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:45 pm 
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The advertised level of the Jump Level Up books is pretty reasonable, though I don't think they take you all the way to 1k. I don't know about the original Level Up series.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #8 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:10 am 
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dfan wrote:
The advertised level of the Jump Level Up books is pretty reasonable, though I don't think they take you all the way to 1k. I don't know about the original Level Up series.


Okay thanks.
I'll probably then just buy the Level Up review 1 book (covering level up 1-5 30 kyu - 18kyu) and the numbers 6-10 (going from 18kyu to supposdely 10 kyu).

If they're that good, I might also get the Jump Level Up Series.
It's a lot of money, though. But money well spend if they're really helpful!

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #9 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:43 am 
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zac wrote:
I know a lot of people have gotten a lot from "Tesuji", but I never really took to it. I much prefer learning from doing L&D problems, which may contain tesuji as part of the solution, or from tesuji problems specifically. I think there are a good mix in Graded go problems for beginners, which I believe you are already working through. Some other favourites of mine are Get strong at tesuji, 200 Tesuji Problems and 200 Endgame Problems (both might be out of print? And likely too difficult for you aside from the first section) and the Lee Changho Tesuji books, vol 4 (ladders and nets) and the first part of vol 1 (mostly snap backs, throw ins, other shortage of liberty problems) should be good for DDK.

I know that for me, I need to see the same patterns repeated over and over before it starts to sink in. It's no good for me to just try and learn a particular situation where a certain move might work, I need to have seen it enough times that in game it will stand out to me, like, "hmm, there looks like there's something in this shape..." then, if I've solved enough problems or seen it in games enough, my reading will be guided to the most likely moves.


You should be able to get 200 endgame problems via print on demand on amazon.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #10 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:15 am 
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Jujube wrote:
You should be able to get 200 endgame problems via print on demand on amazon.


Thanks jujube,

I had a feeling that one of them was still available, just didn't bother to check before posting. They are two of my favourite problem books and wish there were a lot more like them. Actually I imagine that the Jump Level Up series is similar; introduce a pattern, then show different applications of it. It probably helps that I'm a sucker for that small format book, too.
I also like the little diversions contained in there, like showing classical problems or situations from pro games. Just makes it a more interesting read.

I'm really interested to try out the Jump Level Up books, but as far as I know there is no local supplier (Australia), and so shipping is a bit of a killer. I'm pretty sure I'd really like that kind of format. Or maybe the Speed Baduk series (same problems with finding a supplier). Certainly seems to fit the way that I learn best- lots and lots of repetition.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning Tesuji
Post #11 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:27 pm 
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I have volumes 1-5 of jump level up and I recommend them. Volumes 6-10 are still being produced in Korean so I imagine if the publisher keeps going we will have translations of them at some point.

I got mine from Goshop Keima in the Netherlands.

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Post #12 Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Ian Butler wrote:
Okay thanks.
I'll probably then just buy the Level Up review 1 book (covering level up 1-5 30 kyu - 18kyu) and the numbers 6-10 (going from 18kyu to supposdely 10 kyu).

If they're that good, I might also get the Jump Level Up Series.
It's a lot of money, though. But money well spend if they're really helpful!


Hi,
That seems to be a good idea. I have read all the Level Up from volume 1 to 9, and a part of the 10 and of the next one (Jump Level Up 1). The volumes 5 to 10 are the best, I think. It seems to me that Jump Level Up is a bit more repetitive, focusing always on the same techniques.
Speed Baduk vol 7 to 12 are a bit less detailed, but offer a bit more variety. They are much less expensive.

I have made a file with a list of all the techniques that are explained in the exercise books that I own.
You can see the comparison between Level Up and Speek Baduk in it.
You can also see that these books usually don't deal with any strategic concept. Reduction and thickness are very briefly mentioned in Speed Baduk vol 11 and 12, but not in any volume of Level Up. And invasions are completely absent from these books.
That's something to keep in mind when you spend a lot of money in them. They are not a complete course of go.

Learn to Play Go vol 4 and 5 are almost complete in the sense that they cover almost any fundamental concept in the game, except counting your points during the game (a very important concept), at least at a double digit kyu level. But they are not exercise books.


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