Life In 19x19 :: Help me pick a new opening

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Help me pick a new opening http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1729	Page 1 of 1

Author: daniel_the_smith [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:55 am ]

Post subject: Help me pick a new opening

Inspired by this thread...

I always play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I used to prefer to play white to get komi, but lately I've preferred black because I (think I) get such good results with this opening.

But I've played it almost exclusively for a year or more and I'm sure it'd be good for my go to start playing something else.

So, (1) if I do well with that opening what does it say about my go? and (2) What opening is roughly the opposite of this one?

Bonus: 80% of the time it continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 6 . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . 8 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	Kirby [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
I like this opening, too. Since it is such a common opening, I'm not sure if you can really establish something about your go from it. However, people have sometimes said that I play territorially - I'm not sure if this fuseki works well for that, though. As for a new idea, you could try opening with 5-4s for a change.

Author:	Redundant [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
Have fun. Play Jabberwocks.

Author:	emeraldemon [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
O Meien beat Sakai Hideyuki with Jabberwocks not that long ago: I actually think the Kobayashi II is coming back into fashion, I've seen it in quite a few recent pro games. Here's Lee Changho using it in the Samsung semifinal: You could also try the nirensei for a change of pace, although I don't see it too often with pros as black these days. Yoda Norimoto beat Takeo Shinji with it in last year's Kisei league:

Author:	Bill Spight [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
And now for something completely different: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . 5 . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	SoDesuNe [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
I like Mini-Chinese very much Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . 5 . . . . a . . . b . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] If your opponent pincers you, you take the enclosure. If he backs off, you go for the Mini-Chinese ('a').

Author: Bill Spight [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:14 pm ]

Post subject: Re: Help me pick a new opening

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Mukai komoku $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Go Seigen has criticized :w2:

because it allows :b3:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Mini-Chinese $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black can play a mini-Chinese.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Tasuki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This fuseki was once very popular, so popular it was called the Go Shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Double 6-4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And as White:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . 2 . , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To counter the mukai komoku Go Seigen suggest an immediate :w2:

. Then if Black responds at :b3:

or "a",

avoids the mini-Chinese.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 White mukai komoku $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Against nirensei White can play mukai komoku. You might like to try mukai komoku as both Black and White.

Author:	Solomon [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
daniel_the_smith wrote: So, (1) if I do well with that opening what does it say about my go? and (2) What opening is roughly the opposite of this one? (1) It says to me that you like money money, but not as much as the guy who double 3-3s. This is compensated by having more potential and it's not rare to see frameworks coming out of this opening. It's a balanced, standard opening that puts just a bit more emphasis on territory with . You probably pick Ken in SF. (2) Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . 5 . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	daniel_the_smith [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
Thanks, guys. So many choices I can't decide! I'm playing in a tournament tomorrow, after that I will pick one of these and start playing it. ^^ (Jabberwocky and Araban's (does it have a name?) are leading right now, but I like Bill's too, esp. as white... arghh, they are all interesting...)

Author:	Solomon [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
daniel_the_smith wrote: (does it have a name?) I don't think it has a name, but it's not something I just plopped down. I remember it was played by a Finnish 5d against Cho Seok-bin in a tournament a while ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember which tournament it was, I just remember the opening because it looked fun and I tried it a few times after I saw it. I stopped after realizing I feel absolutely no sense of confidence with such an influence-influenced opening (same reason I'm not a fan of openings like san-ren-sei).

Author:	Shaddy [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
I used to play this opening exclusively, black or white (it's black here) Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 1 , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 . . . . . 7 . . . . . , 9 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] And usually as black it would go this way.

Author:	ethanb [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
Araban wrote: daniel_the_smith wrote: (does it have a name?) I don't think it has a name, but it's not something I just plopped down. I remember it was played by a Finnish 5d against Cho Seok-bin in a tournament a while ago. Unfortunately, I can't remember which tournament it was, I just remember the opening because it looked fun and I tried it a few times after I saw it. I stopped after realizing I feel absolutely no sense of confidence with such an influence-influenced opening (same reason I'm not a fan of openings like san-ren-sei). I'm pretty sure the upper right corner is an "O-Meien-ism"

Author:	phrax [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
To advocate my current favorite: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:	emeraldemon [ Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
Here's O Meien playing the large 5-3 enclosure against Cho Chikun (a loss unfortunately) Yay Mr Kin's Go News!

Author:	daniel_the_smith [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
Bill Spight wrote: ... And as White: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 b . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . 2 . , 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] To counter the mukai komoku Go Seigen suggest an immediate . Then if Black responds at or "a", avoids the mini-Chinese. I thought I played this yesterday in my one game as white but I see I misremembered it (I reversed 2 and 4). My opponent responded at 'b' and I wasn't sure what to do next, was that an underplay on his part? I won anyway.

Author:	amnal [ Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
daniel_the_smith wrote: Bill Spight wrote: ... And as White: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 b . . . \| $$ \| . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . 2 . , 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] To counter the mukai komoku Go Seigen suggest an immediate . Then if Black responds at or "a", avoids the mini-Chinese. I thought I played this yesterday in my one game as white but I see I misremembered it (I reversed 2 and 4). My opponent responded at 'b' and I wasn't sure what to do next, was that an underplay on his part? I won anyway. Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . 4 . , 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Do you mean like this, with 3 in some position in another corner (not necessarily that one?) If that's the case, there's not really a 'to do' next. Black has retreated to his corner and is glaring at you. He might be hissing. But he's decided that the territory there is vastly more important than anything else, so it's your turn to run around and maybe use that stone for influence later. You have pressing moves that black can't really counter strongly, like a, if you want to use them.

Author:	daniel_the_smith [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
amnal wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . 4 . , 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Do you mean like this, with 3 in some position in another corner (not necessarily that one?) If that's the case, there's not really a 'to do' next. Black has retreated to his corner and is glaring at you. He might be hissing. But he's decided that the territory there is vastly more important than anything else, so it's your turn to run around and maybe use that stone for influence later. You have pressing moves that black can't really counter strongly, like a, if you want to use them. Yes, and that's what I figured during the game, too.

Author:	shapenaji [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
phrax wrote: To advocate my current favorite: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Hosai's huh? don't see this one very much, I enjoy playing it from time to time though, very solid

Author:	Bill Spight [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
daniel_the_smith wrote: amnal wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Immediate kakari $$ --------------------------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . \| $$ \| . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . 4 . , 1 . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . x . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] Do you mean like this, with 3 in some position in another corner (not necessarily that one?) If that's the case, there's not really a 'to do' next. Black has retreated to his corner and is glaring at you. He might be hissing. But he's decided that the territory there is vastly more important than anything else, so it's your turn to run around and maybe use that stone for influence later. You have pressing moves that black can't really counter strongly, like a, if you want to use them. Yes, and that's what I figured during the game, too. Congratulations on winning the game. Yes, looks a bit too solid, but Black can continue at "x" for a good shape. I agree that a local follow-up does not look urgent now. Besides "a", "b" looks like a good point for White and, in some circumstances, "c". For reference, here is the opening from Go Seigen's 21st Century Go, vol. 8, fuseki lesson 1. [sgf-full](;SZ[19]FF[4]ST[2]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]CA[ISO8859-1]GM[1]PB[ ]GN[ ]FG[259:]PW[ ]PM[2] ;B[qd] ;W[nd] ;B[oc] ;W[dd] ;B[cp] ;W[fp] ;B[dn] ;W[pp] ;B[nc] ;W[md] ;B[lc] ;W[dj] ;B[qj] ;W[qn] ;B[kq] ;W[cq] ;B[dq] ;W[dp] ;B[ep] ;W[do] ;B[eo] ;W[co] ;B[eq] ;W[bp] ;B[em] ;W[cm] ;B[ko] ;W[oq] ;B[fc] ;W[dc] ;B[ld] ;W[pi] ;B[qi] ;W[ph] ;B[qh] ;W[pg] ;B[qg] ;W[pf] ;B[qe] ;W[kg] ;B[hd] ;W[hn] )[/sgf-full] sets up . looks interesting.

Author:	Jedo [ Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Help me pick a new opening
For what it's worth, this thread inspired me to adopt Jabberwocks as my new opening

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