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 Post subject: How to count territory ?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:03 pm 
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helo

i am curently 11k on kgs and i think lately of counting ... how does one actually does this ?
I am having real big troubles because i can´t count , like i am winning a game but because i am not sure / or think i am loosing i invade and i end up loosing the game -_-
Can anyone give me a clue or teach me how i can do this please ?
Because i think that it will help me improve :-)
And when i play weaker players i´d like to help a bit with leading in the right direction not win by to much because i am afraid if i see 4-6 stones . i want too encourage the beginners

thank you

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 Post subject: Re: How to count terrytory ?
Post #2 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:09 pm 
Oza
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These are very popular.

http://senseis.xmp.net/?SteveFawthrop%2FCounting

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 Post subject: Re: How to count terrytory ?
Post #3 Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:02 pm 
Tengen

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See

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6980&hilit=counting+territory

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8094&hilit=counting+territory

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8376&hilit=counting+territory

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8852&hilit=counting+territory

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7800&hilit=counting+territory

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1341&hilit=judgement

viewforum.php?f=17

viewforum.php?f=57

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 Post subject: Re: How to count terrytory ?
Post #4 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Here are the lessons in the first reply in SGF form.

[admin]
Copyrighted info removed at request of copyright holder.
An author-approved link is here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8867&p=144846&hilit=counting#p144846
-JB
[/admin]

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 Post subject: Re: How to count terrytory ?
Post #5 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:31 pm 
Lives in gote

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[admin]
Copyrighted info removed at request of copyright holder.
-JB
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 Post subject: Re: How to count terrytory ?
Post #6 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:32 pm 
Oza

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DJLLAP wrote:
Here are the lessons in the first reply in SGF form.


Please remove these. They are copyrighted and cannot be reproduced here. There is already a thread with LINKS to them, not the embedded files.

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 Post subject: Re: How to count territory ?
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:07 pm 
Dies in gote

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Pardon me for bringing up an old topic.
Ushikubo 9p, in his book, stated that each pro has their own way of counting. Also, Yanagisawa 5p stated, in one of his you tube videos that you need to determine how the end game will play out when counting.

With that in mind, Ushikubo 9p states that he recommends counting solid territory for amateurs. That is, assume the endgame is played out by the opponent when counting (or you when counting your opponent's territory), then count what you and your opponent is left with. Everything else, including your and your opponent's framework that is invadable, are neutral.

On the other hand there are the main schools that incorporate only sente endgame moves into counting, with everything else (including double sente) split down the middle. This seems more accurate because a sente endgame move is, being a sente, will mostly be played by the side which has sente.

As for me, I guess I have to study endgame before I could do any of these.

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 Post subject: Re: How to count territory ?
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Playing with my students, I pause to estimate each other’s territory roughly every 60 moves. We write down our figures. It is a terrific exercise.

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 Post subject: Re: How to count territory ?
Post #9 Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 pm 
Honinbo

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kyulearner wrote:
With that in mind, Ushikubo 9p states that he recommends counting solid territory for amateurs. That is, assume the endgame is played out by the opponent when counting (or you when counting your opponent's territory), then count what you and your opponent is left with. Everything else, including your and your opponent's framework that is invadable, are neutral.


What is wrong with that is the last word. What that method does is estimate reasonably solid territory, which does not claim to estimate all territory or to estimate the final score. What it does is to give you an idea of how much territory you need to get elsewhere. That's useful and practical to know, but that method does not give you an idea how easy or difficult it is to get that territory.

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