contact play - is above rather than down always better?

thequietcenter · #1

In this game:

My opponent is threatening to take away the territory under me, if I dont play down on the 2nd line.

But as I understand it, typically you want to prefer to play above the opponent towards the center.

Questions:

1 - which is the better contact play and why?
2 - is there some other move on the board better than being concerned with the contact situation?

Comments:

I went ahead and protected my territory and played on the 2nd line.

daniel_the_smith · #2

"Should I always play X in situation Y?"

In go, we don't need to know what X and Y are to answer the above; if X and Y are sufficiently general to make this an interesting question, 99.9 percent of the time the answer is a big "NO". There are always exceptions. Except when there aren't, but even then there's usually a really rare situation that...

thequietcenter wrote:

But as I understand it, typically you want to prefer to play above the opponent towards the center.

I'm not sure where you heard that, but it can't possibly be a universal rule unless you define "typically" to mean a certain class of position. (which this game would not fall into!)

1. Where are your points, and how will you get them?
2. Are there weak groups that an extension upwards will affect?
3. If you play on top and make a wall, will that wall be worth more than the cash your opponent got?
4. Is there a bigger move elsewhere?

Try to resist sente moves, if you can; for example, if next black plays B3 and you answer that, too, it will feel like white really got pushed around.

Try to get your points in a way that take away the opponent's potential at the same time, such moves are twice as big as merely defending your own territory.

Black's move in this case, locally speaking, was very good. It is endgame, but if there's nothing much happening on the board right now, that's ok. White might consider playing around b4 rather than answering directly.

The important thing on this board, however, is black's weak group on the top. White is behind on points. You must figure out a way to turn that weak black group into cash for you somewhere. Perhaps G15? If you severely punish that weak black group, then black L2 will look like a big mistake, as it misses the main point of the position. So, I think you shouldn't respond locally at all. He can't kill you if you tenuki.

thequietcenter · #3

I'm sorry. I posted the SGF incorrectly - I linked to the SGF and several moves were made since I posted it. And I also failed to mention what color I was playing.

In the game of interest, I am playing White (username: cannabis_protection_union) and Black has just made a shoulder hit
as you can see here: http://eidogo.com/#gO4iAwG:0,51

And my dilemma was whether to play on the 2nd line (at K2) and protect my territory or play above the stone at L3 or perhaps ignore altogether and play elsewhere.

Again, sorry for the poor posting. I read the "how to post SGF" document, but for some reason, completely failed to mention my username or color.

Dusk Eagle · #4

Black's move was bad, and your descent was fine. Black's move is known as an armpit hit, and your response is correct most of the time.

I think the situation you're thinking of is something more like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a O b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Playing at 'a' for white is much better than playing 'b'. But in your game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . c b . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . W a . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Your

stone is already above his :b1:

stone. If black tries to push up at 'a' from here, he will be pushing from behind, which is bad. You'll then have options like 'b', 'c', or 'd', depending on the situation.

contact play - is above rather than down always better?

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