It is currently Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:24 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:25 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
There are total 63 human participants and one AI, DeepZenGo from Japan. DeepZenGo got in as the sponsor's wild card entry.

The are 4 participants from EU and NA in the final stage. Ilya Shikshin from Russia, Mateusz Surma from Poland, Ryan Li from Canada, and Stephanie Yin from the US. Ilya's next round opponent in C-League, Gao Yu 3p, are also in the draw, but it's unlikely that they will play each other again.

For the other 59 spots, China occupies 37 (4 female players). Korea has 18 (4 amateurs). Japan has 3 (all seeds, no Japanese player advanced from the prelims). And the final seed is Taiwan's Xiao Zhenghao 9p.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:39 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 160
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 31
Rank: KGS 2d
Ke Jie is the defending champion here, having that memorable best of 5 final against Lee Sedol. Interestingly, the AlphaGo history is essentially bookended between the two MLily cups, with AlphaGo/Lee matches announced shortly after the last final and retiring right before this one starts.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:04 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 160
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 31
Rank: KGS 2d
The draw is out, and Park Junghwan vs. Tuo Jiaxi is the highlight of the first round. DeepZenGo will play Shin Minjun.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:27 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 72
Liked others: 23
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 3d
Can someone post all the pairings please?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:06 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
kimidori wrote:
Can someone post all the pairings please?

I will give it a try :) I might get the 4 Korean amateurs names wrong since they are not on Goratings.org. I color coded female players pink, and also colored coded Japanese, Taiwanese, and Western country players. Did not try to color code Korean player.
Ilya is paired with new pro He Yang (btw Sina got He Yang's name wrong, mistook it for a slightly different character) and might have chance. Mateusz's match up Liao Yuanhe 5p on the other hand is much tougher.

1. Huang Xin 4p (CN) vs Moon Yoobyeong (a, KR)
2. Zhang Xuan 8p (CN) vs Stephanie Yin 1p (US)
3. Choi Cheolhan 9p (KR) vs Yin Qu 1p (CN)
4. Park Chongyoo (a, KR) vs Lee Sedol 9p (KR)
5. Yang Dingxin 5p (CN) vs Chen Yaoye 9p (CN)
6. Cheng Honghao 2p (CN) vs Ryan Li 1p (CA)
7. Lian Xiao 8p (CN) vs Tong Mengcheng 6p (CN)
8. Park Yeonghun 9p (KR) vs Li Biqi 3p (CN)
9. An Joyeong 9p (KR) vs Chen Zijian 4p (CN)
10. Han Seungjoo 4p (KR) vs Lu Minquan 4p (CN)
11. Han Taehee 6p (KR) vs Mi Yuting 9p (CN)
12. Zhao Yifei 1p (CN) vs Fan Yunruo 6p (CN)
13. Wang Haoyang 6p (CN) vs Shin Jinseo 8p (KR)
14. Shin Minjun 5p (KR) vs DeepZenGo (JP, AI)
15. Tang Weixing 9p (CN) vs Cho Namjun (a, KR)
16. Tan Xiao 8p (CN) vs Park Chingrui (a, KR)
17. Yu Zhengqi 7p (JP) vs Gao Yu 3p (CN)
18. Ilya Shinkshin 1p (RU) vs He Yang 1p (CN)
19. Xu Jiayang 6p (CN) vs Huang Jingyuan 3p (CN)
20. Kang Yootaek 8p (KR) vs Ke Jie 9p (CN)
21. Gu Zihao 5p (CN) vs Xie Ke 3p (CN)
22. Li Zhe 6p (CN) vs Li Xiangyu 4p (CN)
23. Ahn Kukhyun 8p (KR) vs Guo Yuzheng 5p (CN)
24. Lee Jihyun 6p (KR) vs Li Xuanhao 6p (CN)
25. Kono Rin 9p (JP) vs Tao Xinran 6p (CN)
26. Xiao Zhenghao 9p (TW) vs Rong Yi 5p (CN)
27. Dang Yifei 9p (CN) vs Wang Tao 6p (CN)
28. Takao Shinji 9p (JP) vs Jiang Weijie 9p (CN)
29. Liao Yuanhe 5p (CN) vs Mateusz Surma 1p (PL)
30. Kang Dongyun 9p (KR) vs Na Hyun 6p (KR)
31. Park Junghwan 9p (KR) vs Tuo Jiaxi 9p (CN)
32. Zhou Ruiyang 9p (CN) vs Ma Yichao 4p (CN)


This post by wolfking was liked by 5 people: dsatkas, ez4u, kimidori, Waylon, xiayun
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:22 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 160
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 31
Rank: KGS 2d
Also there will be no re-draw until the third round, so the winner of match 1 will play the winner of match 2, and so on. The bottom 4 definitely got a tough draw against each other.


This post by xiayun was liked by: wolfking
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:34 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
xiayun wrote:
Also there will be no re-draw until the third round, so the winner of match 1 will play the winner of match 2, and so on. The bottom 4 definitely got a tough draw against each other.

Yes that was 4 world champs in the last 4 groups. On the other hand it provides some early round fireworks. :D

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #8 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:19 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 464
Liked others: 30
Was liked: 157
GD Posts: 10
Are all results revealed yet?
Anyway, this is what Ke Jie said yesterday during the ceremony
"Do not support the participation of DeepZenGo, do not support, I do not want to admit, it can not be helped "I said. Maybe because I was defeated by AlphaGo of Go AI last month."
"DeepZenGo seems to be the opponent you do not want to fight most."

Google translated from https://www.itkaigai.com/news/mlily-ai- ... -kejie.htm

Update: DeepZen wins using 44 seconds per move, Hideki Kato gives 55% confidence rate against Ke Jie, May be this will be the last time AI participate in human tournament if every professionals are against it.
http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2017-06-19 ... 9148.shtml


Last edited by pookpooi on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #9 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:22 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4015
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 1977
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
pookpooi wrote:
Are all results revealed yet?

- Mateusz lost. Tried and failed to kill a group, seemed pretty much over after that.
- Zen won, I thought it was giving up too much territory and played what looked like a big minus atari. Later Shin Minjun approached Zen's 4-4 instead of taking care of centre group, Zen captured the tail and allowed double approach (which is maybe not so severe as humans think, reminded me of team vs AlphaGo game and also Master vs Tang Weixing), and later captured 2nd tail. I feel like in the local shapes Shin maybe played better than Zen, but lost out in when was the right time to tenuki. And Zen lived too easily with lots of territory in top left, should Shin have 3-3?
- Sin Jinseo 8p (goratings #4 3556) lost to Wang Haoyang 6p (#136, 3266), big surprise. He sacrificed a group for some big centre moyo, but Wang ended up living in all of it following a load of pushing Shin on 4th line.
- Ke Jie won.
- Kono Rin won so Japan not wiped out yet (Kono actually seems to do fairly well against Chinese players).
- Tong MengCheng beat Lian Xiao in minor upset.
- Xie Ke beat Gu Zihao in another upset among 2 young rising players (#100 vs #22)
- Chen Yaoye beat Yang Dingxin; #9 vs #20, old(!) guard keeping young at bay (28 years old vs 19).
- Takao Shinji (#78) great win vs Jiang Weiji (#13), Go Japan!
- Park Yeonghun won.
- An Joyeong (9p born 1979, maybe oldest apart from Takao) lost to Chinese youngster Chen Zijian.
- Park Junghwan beat Tuo Jiaxi, very interesting game: Park did AlphaGo style 3-3 invasion, Tuo resists peep in wall and ends up making 4th line side based off AG big high shimari, but then Park lives insides in trade for moyo and sabakis the fragments there.


This post by Uberdude was liked by 4 people: Bill Spight, ez4u, pookpooi, wolfking
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #10 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:24 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 20
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 7
Rank: EGF 2d
KGS: fightback
Also,
Tang won, Choi won, sedol won and one western pro made it ! Ryan Li won by 0.5 :).
Na Hyun beat Kang Dongyun.
Mi lost against Han Taehee, that was unexpected.


This post by findol was liked by: ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:23 am 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 1
Overall, China suffered quite a bit: losing Tuo, Mi, and Lian so early is a major blow, but fortunately Ke Jie made it to the second round unscathed.
On the other hand, Japan had a particularly good day: Takao and Kono can pat each other on the back for what might well be the best Japanese performance of the last couple of years.
It will also be interesting to see how far in the tournament DeepZen can go, though from the game against Shin it still seems to me that top players should have the upper hand (this is sheer conjecture however, maybe the machine will go on a roll and grab the crown, who knows).

On another note, Choi Chelohan has been kicking lately: 8 wins out of his last 9 games with victories against the likes of Mi Yuting and Chen Yaoye. He just trounced his opponent in fewer than 100 moves (granted, his opponent was 1p, but still). It would be rather swell to see him make a last-ditch effort at an international tournament!


Last edited by Cosmonauts on Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Cosmonauts was liked by: findol
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:48 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Results of round of 64

1. Huang Xin 4p (CN) vs Moon Yoobyeong (a, KR) --> Huang Xin 4p (CN)
2. Zhang Xuan 8p (CN) vs Stephanie Yin 1p (US) --> Zhang Xuan 8p (CN)
3. Choi Cheolhan 9p (KR) vs Yin Qu 1p (CN) --> Choi Cheolhan 9p (KR)
4. Park Chongyoo (a, KR) vs Lee Sedol 9p (KR) --> Lee Sedol 9p (KR)
5. Yang Dingxin 5p (CN) vs Chen Yaoye 9p (CN) --> Chen Yaoye 9p (CN)
6. Cheng Honghao 2p (CN) vs Ryan Li 1p (CA) --> Ryan Li 1p (CA)
7. Lian Xiao 8p (CN) vs Tong Mengcheng 6p (CN) --> Tong Mengcheng 6p (CN)
8. Park Yeonghun 9p (KR) vs Li Biqi 3p (CN) --> Park Yeonghun 9p (KR)
9. An Joyeong 9p (KR) vs Chen Zijian 4p (CN) --> Chen Zijian 4p (CN)
10. Han Seungjoo 4p (KR) vs Lu Minquan 4p (CN) --> Lu Minquan 4p (CN)
11. Han Taehee 6p (KR) vs Mi Yuting 9p (CN) --> Han Taehee 6p (KR)
12. Zhao Yifei 1p (CN) vs Fan Yunruo 6p (CN) --> Fan Yunruo 6p (CN)
13. Wang Haoyang 6p (CN) vs Shin Jinseo 8p (KR) --> Wang Haoyang 6p (CN)
14. Shin Minjun 5p (KR) vs DeepZenGo (JP, AI) --> DeepZenGo (JP, AI)
15. Tang Weixing 9p (CN) vs Cho Namjun (a, KR) --> Tang Weixing 9p (CN)
16. Tan Xiao 8p (CN) vs Park Chingrui (a, KR) --> Tan Xiao 8p (CN)
17. Yu Zhengqi 7p (JP) vs Gao Yu 3p (CN) --> Gao Yu 3p (CN)
18. Ilya Shinkshin 1p (RU) vs He Yang 1p (CN) --> He Yang 1p (CN)
19. Xu Jiayang 6p (CN) vs Huang Jingyuan 3p (CN) --> Huang Jingyuan 3p (CN)
20. Kang Yootaek 8p (KR) vs Ke Jie 9p (CN) --> Ke Jie 9p (CN)
21. Gu Zihao 5p (CN) vs Xie Ke 3p (CN) --> Xie Ke 3p (CN)
22. Li Zhe 6p (CN) vs Li Xiangyu 4p (CN) --> Li Zhe 6p (CN)
23. Ahn Kukhyun 8p (KR) vs Guo Yuzheng 5p (CN) --> Guo Yuzheng 5p (CN)
24. Lee Jihyun 6p (KR) vs Li Xuanhao 6p (CN) --> Li Xuanhao 6p (CN)
25. Kono Rin 9p (JP) vs Tao Xinran 6p (CN) --> Kono Rin 9p (JP)
26. Xiao Zhenghao 9p (TW) vs Rong Yi 5p (CN) --> Rong Yi 5p (CN)
27. Dang Yifei 9p (CN) vs Wang Tao 6p (CN) --> Wang Tao 6p (CN)
28. Takao Shinji 9p (JP) vs Jiang Weijie 9p (CN) --> Takao Shinji 9p (JP)
29. Liao Yuanhe 5p (CN) vs Mateusz Surma 1p (PL) --> Liao Yuanhe 5p (CN)
30. Kang Dongyun 9p (KR) vs Na Hyun 6p (KR) --> Na Hyun 6p (KR)
31. Park Junghwan 9p (KR) vs Tuo Jiaxi 9p (CN) --> Park Junghwan 9p (KR)
32. Zhou Ruiyang 9p (CN) vs Ma Yichao 4p (CN) --> Zhou Ruiyang 9p (CN)


This post by wolfking was liked by: findol
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Ke Jie's game against Kang Yootaek was rather dramatic. Ke(playing black) attacked Kang's huge dragon on the right and built some solid territory along the way, but gave Kang even bigger mojo on the left, leaving only a few weak black stones spreading out in white circle of influence. Then Ke Jie did some incredible sabaki and lived in a space barely enough to make two eyes with no interference!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:32 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 5
Rank: Europe 5 dan
KGS: Flashgoe
Too sad that Shin Jinseo is out. Too early for him. The same can be said about Mi Yuting.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:40 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4015
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 1977
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Thanks wolfking for all results; I think bold is clearer to mark winners:

1. Huang Xin 4p (CN) vs Moon Yoobyeong (a, KR)
2. Zhang Xuan 8p (CN) vs Stephanie Yin 1p (US)
3. Choi Cheolhan 9p (KR) vs Yin Qu 1p (CN)
4. Park Chongyoo (a, KR) vs Lee Sedol 9p (KR)
5. Yang Dingxin 5p (CN) vs Chen Yaoye 9p (CN)
6. Cheng Honghao 2p (CN) vs Ryan Li 1p (CA)
7. Lian Xiao 8p (CN) vs Tong Mengcheng 6p (CN)
8. Park Yeonghun 9p (KR) vs Li Biqi 3p (CN)
9. An Joyeong 9p (KR) vs Chen Zijian 4p (CN)
10. Han Seungjoo 4p (KR) vs Lu Minquan 4p (CN)
11. Han Taehee 6p (KR) vs Mi Yuting 9p (CN)
12. Zhao Yifei 1p (CN) vs Fan Yunruo 6p (CN)
13. Wang Haoyang 6p (CN) vs Shin Jinseo 8p (KR)
14. Shin Minjun 5p (KR) vs DeepZenGo (JP, AI)
15. Tang Weixing 9p (CN) vs Cho Namjun (a, KR)
16. Tan Xiao 8p (CN) vs Park Chingrui (a, KR)
17. Yu Zhengqi 7p (JP) vs Gao Yu 3p (CN)
18. Ilya Shinkshin 1p (RU) vs He Yang 1p (CN)
19. Xu Jiayang 6p (CN) vs Huang Jingyuan 3p (CN)
20. Kang Yootaek 8p (KR) vs Ke Jie 9p (CN)
21. Gu Zihao 5p (CN) vs Xie Ke 3p (CN)
22. Li Zhe 6p (CN) vs Li Xiangyu 4p (CN)
23. Ahn Kukhyun 8p (KR) vs Guo Yuzheng 5p (CN)
24. Lee Jihyun 6p (KR) vs Li Xuanhao 6p (CN)
25. Kono Rin 9p (JP) vs Tao Xinran 6p (CN)
26. Xiao Zhenghao 9p (TW) vs Rong Yi 5p (CN)
27. Dang Yifei 9p (CN) vs Wang Tao 6p (CN)
28. Takao Shinji 9p (JP) vs Jiang Weijie 9p (CN)
29. Liao Yuanhe 5p (CN) vs Mateusz Surma 1p (PL)
30. Kang Dongyun 9p (KR) vs Na Hyun 6p (KR)
31. Park Junghwan 9p (KR) vs Tuo Jiaxi 9p (CN)
32. Zhou Ruiyang 9p (CN) vs Ma Yichao 4p (CN)

P.S. Good win for female Lu Minquan 4p who I hadn't heard of before, maybe one of the biggest upsets of the round. Goratings has her at #387 (3080) vs Han at #82 (3332) so 19% win chance.
P.P.S Wang beating Shin was 16%.


This post by Uberdude was liked by: wolfking
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #16 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:03 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4015
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 1977
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Cosmonauts wrote:
On another note, Choi Chelohan has been kicking lately: 8 wins out of his last 9 games with wins against the likes of Mi Yuting and Chen Yaoye.

Yes, I'm pleased for Choi, who previously really struggled against Chinese players, particularly Chen, whose solid defensive style seemed to frustrate Choi's aggression and Chen led 8-1 in head to head a few years ago (and Choi is older so it's not like he was not yet full strength in those early games), see https://gogameguru.com/go-commentary-ch ... ea-tengen/. But Choi has won 8 of their last 10 games, and goratings.org shows him at an all time high following a dip in 2014 from his previous peak plateau in 2009-2012.


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Cosmonauts
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #17 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:12 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Uberdude wrote:
I think bold is clearer to mark winners:

P.S. Good win for female Lu Minquan 4p who I hadn't heard of before, maybe one of the biggest upsets of the round. Goratings has her at #387 (3080) vs Han at #82 (3332) so 19% win chance.
P.P.S Wang beating Shin was 16%.


Yes of course! Thanks for posting in the right format!

Lu Minquan is not well known probably because she has not won any international title and there is not much Chinese female tournament news in English. She won 2014 Yellow River Cup Amateur Championship at age of 15, turned pro same year, joined the national team, and came in second to Yu Zhiying in 2015 at National Mind Games. In 2016 she won third place in National Go Championship Women's group. She has been playing in women's A-League since 2015.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #18 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:59 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Footage of Ryan Li's (surprised?) facial expression after winning against Cheng Honghao 2p by half point. http://weibo.com/tv/v/F8zg0x4xN?fid=103 ... 74bab86fcf
The pro going over a few key points looks like Zhao Xinghua 3p, and I believe it was Stephanie Yin standing behind Ryan.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #19 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:07 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 619
Location: Littleton, CO
Liked others: 211
Was liked: 180
Rank: KGS 4k
Universal go server handle: jeromie
Thank you for all of the updates! There were some really interesting results this round.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #20 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:24 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 115
Liked others: 58
Was liked: 76
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Anybody familiar with Ilya maybe can help to interpret his swinging posture here http://weibo.com/tv/v/F8xyepb9q?fid=103 ... 06db01b863
Is he happy or upset about his position?

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bohdan, Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group