It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:55 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: 22nd LG Cup
Post #1 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:29 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 205
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 50
Rank: KGS 2d
Didn't find an existing thread even though the event has advanced to the quarterfinal stage. The quarterfinal and semifinal matches will be going on tomorrow and then 2 days after. Here are the matchups:

Ke Jie vs. Shin Jinseo
Xie Erhao vs. Choi Cheolhan
Jiang Weijie vs. Lee Wonyoung
Yang Tingxin vs. Iyama Yuta

Some intriguing storylines: another chance for Ke Jie to win a world title in 2017 (Has one more in the inaugural Shinyao Cup at the end of the year), the potential for Shin and Iyama to finally break through, and two more young Chinese players in the mix. Also Jiang won his only world title here and has beaten Lee Sedol and Park Junghwan to get to the quarter, while Lee Wonyoung beat the defending champ Dang Yifei and then Tang Weixing.


This post by xiayun was liked by 2 people: emeraldemon, ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #2 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:13 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4243
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 159
Was liked: 2092
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
I think there was some coverage of previous rounds in the Iyama and Ke Jie threads.

Winner in bold:
Ke Jie vs. Shin Jinseo
Xie Erhao vs. Choi Cheolhan
Jiang Weijie vs. Lee Wonyoung
Yang Tingxin vs. Iyama Yuta


This post by Uberdude was liked by: pookpooi
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #3 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:47 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 607
Liked others: 41
Was liked: 191
GD Posts: 10
I'm so happy for both Ke Jie and Iyama Yuta!!!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #4 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:14 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 205
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 50
Rank: KGS 2d
Jiang Weijie won by 0.5 point.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #5 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:39 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 90
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 3d
Game Jiang-Lee, from WBaduk the results, show Jiang won by 0.5

Game Iyama, glad to see him win, I was somehow worried for his dragon when I watched the middle game, but as usual (not always though), he found a good tesuji to escape. Yang probably thought he can do a probing move threaten to connect his 3 stones on the left, but Iyama showed his determination with the cut. After that exchange I think the fight is already good for him.

So the semi match-up is Iyama - Ke Jie, right? Ke Jie is obviously stronger, but I think Iyama has slightly better chance against Ke than against Shin, in the last encounter Shin somehow destroyed him.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #6 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:42 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 205
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 50
Rank: KGS 2d
Semifinal matchups:

Ke Jie vs. Iyama Yuta
Xie Erhao vs. Jiang Weijie

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #7 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:11 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4243
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 159
Was liked: 2092
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Ke Jie's game was a nice example of his new territory-oriented style inspired by AlphaGo: he (as white) started with a 3-3 and 3-4, early invaded a 4-4, and then reduced the moyo (with a 5th line shoulder hit) which ended in a trade of him getting some corner and Shin getting thick (initial 5th line shoulder hit sacrificed) and keeping the other half of the moyo. But Ke reduced that too later and Shin resisted resulting in Ke burrowing in deeply and then extricating his group whilst leaving some cutting aji. Then in the endgame Ke won when he killed that formerly thick group which didn't actually have 2 eyes after refusing to be bullied into a passive life.

Also Iyama (white) played an AG-style early 3-3 invasion and played the 4th corner as a 3-3 in a cross fuseki. This reminded me of his first game with Ichiriki Ryo in the Tengen title match in which in which he as black invaded Ichiriki's 4th corner 4-4 at 3-3 for move 5 and seemed to get a good result in the resulting joseki and subsequent ladder breaker fight. I predict in their semi-final game we will see no 4-4 points.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #8 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:05 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1904
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 2817
Both the quarter-finals and semi-finals are being played in the Nihon Ki-in. Brilliant piece of prediction by the scheduler given that no Koreans will appear in the semi-finals!

Anyway, home turf may help Iyama.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #9 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:30 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 607
Liked others: 41
Was liked: 191
GD Posts: 10
Sina analysis seems happy that Korean pro didn't make into semi final.

Image

https://sports.sina.cn/others/qipai/201 ... 762.d.html

I really cheer Iyama because he's the solid proof that Japan doesn't fall behind the international go competition but some Redditter told me that we shouldn't count Iyama because he's the 'anamoly' of Japanese professional system.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #10 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:54 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 90
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 3d
Quote:
Then in the endgame Ke won when he killed that formerly thick group which didn't actually have 2 eyes after refusing to be bullied into a passive life.


Could you elaborate which group is killed at the end? Perhaps I misread something, but I think the black group is alive if he capture the single stone on the 2nd line. The lower center group surrounding by White also seems alive to me, or is it dead instead?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #11 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:14 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4243
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 159
Was liked: 2092
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
kimidori wrote:
Quote:
Then in the endgame Ke won when he killed that formerly thick group which didn't actually have 2 eyes after refusing to be bullied into a passive life.

Could you elaborate which group is killed at the end? Perhaps I misread something, but I think the black group is alive if he capture the single stone on the 2nd line. The lower center group surrounding by White also seems alive to me, or is it dead instead?


If Shin lives with the one in the bottom right then Ke kills the bottom middle with bulky five:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ke Jie (white) vs Shin Jinseo, W+R after 1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O . |
$$ | X O O X X X X . . . . . X X O O O . O |
$$ | O . O O O O . . . , . . . O X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . O . . X . . . . . X . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O O X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . . . X X . X X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O O . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O O X O . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . O X X X . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O X . O X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | O X O O O . @ 4 . 3 5 X O O X X X 2 . |
$$ | . X X X O . . . X O O X O X X . . O . |
$$ | . X . X O . . . X X X X O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . @ a . . O X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . O O . 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If 4 is at 5 then then W atari at 4 and although black captures 4 stones in L shape white recaptures and it's dead 3 eyespace. The two square marked stones are the ones which enabled this sneaky kill. The centre one was tenukid for and endgame move at top left, the lower one was answered at 1st line in bottom left: attempting to get double sente yose. If the latter was answered with living with either group to prevent the double attack I presume Ke planned to play the bottom left 1st line in sente and then maybe complete the lower side territory at a. Whether Shin saw this kill but realised living left him behind on points so played his squared stone as finding a place to resign, or it was an oversight I can't say.

P.S Thanks to macelee for quick upload to go4go for the diagram.


This post by Uberdude was liked by: kimidori
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #12 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:59 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4243
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 159
Was liked: 2092
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
I've only done a quick replay of the games rather than any in-depth study, but here's a puzzle: why did Yang allow Iyama to push through and capture the cutting stones instead of connecting with a bamboo joint at a instead of 1? the 2-5 exchanges seem to just about make the push through and subsequent net work, so did Yang miss this, or consider they were lossy enough he could give up the cutting stones and get sente for b? (Also black played f12 so I suppose there's more bad things white can do there than I assumed at first glance). That he resigned on move 126 after just some minor skirmishes at the bottom left and then 2 moves bottom right suggests things didn't go as he planned.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Iyama Yuta (white) vs Yang Dingxin
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X O X . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . O X O O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . , O . X O . O O X X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . X b . X X O . O X X . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O X X X O . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . . . X . O O . X O . O O . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O X X X X O . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O O X O X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . X O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 6 X . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 O . O O X 3 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #13 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:31 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1904
Liked others: 12
Was liked: 2817
Quote:
Whether Shin saw this kill but realised living left him behind on points so played his squared stone as finding a place to resign, or it was an oversight I can't say.


A possible factor was time. I don't know whether he was in time trouble (the main setting was a decent 3 hours each) but, if he was, byoyomi was just 40 seconds, which seems to have become the norm in Korean events.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #14 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:00 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 47
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 8
pookpooi wrote:
Sina analysis seems happy that Korean pro didn't make into semi final.

Image

https://sports.sina.cn/others/qipai/201 ... 762.d.html

I really cheer Iyama because he's the solid proof that Japan doesn't fall behind the international go competition but some Redditter told me that we shouldn't count Iyama because he's the 'anamoly' of Japanese professional system.


That Redditter would be correct. If Japan weren't behind Korea or China, then you'd see more Japanese players in the semi-finals and finals of international events far more frequently. When was the last time a native Japanese player made it this far in an international event?


This post by ewan1971 was liked by: pookpooi
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #15 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:40 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 205
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 50
Rank: KGS 2d
ewan1971 wrote:
When was the last time a native Japanese player made it this far in an international event?


It'd be Iyama Yuta himself in 2011 Fujitsu Cup (the last time it was held). Before that, believe it's Yoda Norimoto in the same event in 2007.

This suddenly reminded me of Nongshim Cup, and I do miss its glorious 3-year stretch from 2003-2006, when the three nations went back and forth and fought all the way to the end every time, punctuated by Yoda Norimoto ending Lee Changho's unbeaten streak to win Japan's only title.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #16 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:48 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 607
Liked others: 41
Was liked: 191
GD Posts: 10
Anyway, he's sitting at world ranked no.3 right now and I'll watch this ranking happily all day cause it might change (for worse) after tomorrow's result comes.

One more interesting, Cho Chikun was the commentator in yesterday so I'm wondering that he's the commentator for all big events because he's funny? I'll watch relay game from go server tomorrow but would love to see the game live if it broadcast anywhere!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #17 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:53 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 47
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 8
pookpooi wrote:
Anyway, he's sitting at world ranked no.3 right now and I'll watch this ranking happily all day cause it might change (for worse) after tomorrow's result comes.

One more interesting, Cho Chikun was the commentator in yesterday so I'm wondering that he's the commentator for all big events because he's funny? I'll watch relay game from go server tomorrow but would love to see the game live if it broadcast anywhere!


No.3? I see he's ranked at no. 27 or lower.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #18 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:39 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4044
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 411
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
While you're being polite enough, this topic is sufficiently contentious that we have a dedicated thread for arguing about it: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13750. That was mostly because of a particular troll who is long gone, but it seems like a good policy.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #19 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:42 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 83
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 8
Since there are no korean players anymore Baduk tv is no gonna stream this event, is there any free stream ? Chinese are japanese ?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 22nd LG Cup
Post #20 Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:00 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 90
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 3d
Game Ke Jie/Iyama.

Ke Jie indeed goes for 2 san-san, but Iyama does play a 4-4 and even decides to take the outside with the high Chinese fuseki.

Ke Jie's move 22 also seems to be inspired by what Fan Hui showed him in the review of his games with Alpha Go.

Now I think the outcome depends on how good B can attack the W group. The lower side also seems to have some bad aji.

I would say the game is a bit better for Ke Jie at the time :).

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group