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 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #21 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:41 am 
Tengen

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Here is the 1st Golaxy vs LeelaZero game. LZ lost after playing an utter nonsense move, some people wondered if this was a bug due to high tree simulations, but now it seems a technical relay error. LZ was at 39% win before though.



Should I move this and the other Golaxy vs LZ related posts to a new thread in computer go subforum?


This post by Uberdude was liked by: sorin
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 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #22 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:48 am 
Lives in sente

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Golaxy 2 : LZ 0

Golaxy was so strong in close combat.

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 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #23 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:55 am 
Lives in sente

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KGS: macelee
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It appears that white has two weak groups, plus the upper-left corner is not alive either. But Golaxy had the leisure to play :w2: to capture 4 stones and secure very big teritorry advantage. Note there's aji at 'a' so white probably did not think the groups were under any danger.

It ended up in this situation and white only started saving the weak groups at this moment.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . . O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . 1 X . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Because of the aji at 'a' white could play this very strong move.

Later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . 1 O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . O X X O O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . O X . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 X O O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 4 2 O X X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 X X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Black was forced to connect at :b1: and white managed to break out and black's bottom-right group became the defendant.

Later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . a . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . 6 X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . 3 2 4 . . . . O . . X O . |
$$ | O . O X . . 5 X . . O X X O O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . X . O X . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X O O O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . O O O X X O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . O . O X X . . X . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . X . . O X . X X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O X . O O O O O O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . O X . X X X . O X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X O X X , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . O O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


At this moment, I was thinking that white could play 'a' to at least create a ko fight. But Golaxy knew much better.

:w2: a good tesuji, and :w6: an even better one! White would either be unconditionally alive, or as in the real game, cut off black's central group and kill it!


This post by macelee was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, sorin, tim
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 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #24 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:35 pm 
Dies with sente

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macelee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It appears that white has two weak groups, plus the upper-left corner is not alive either. But Golaxy had the leisure to play :w2: to capture 4 stones and secure very big teritorry advantage. Note there's aji at 'a' so white probably did not think the groups were under any danger.


I think that the main benefit from white 2 in the diagram is keeping the black group weak - of course, capturing 4 stones is a nice bonus on top of that.

_________________
Sorin - 361points.com

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 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #25 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:42 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4628
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 207
Was liked: 2298
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Watching the game, I felt like the onus was on black (Leela Zero) to prove it was justified in allowing white to get both the turn and the block (marked) on the right side: allowing that just goes so much against my intuition. Yes the "plan" was obviously to get some large splitting attack later (but black needed to get the marked 2nd line connection at the top right before and chances to attack that white group) but in doing so white squirmed around on the right side a lot and took away black's territory and eyespace too, plus making the a cut bad aji (like sorin said unsettling that black group was most important aspect of the peep).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . O X B . . X X . |
$$ | X O O . X X . . X O . . O X . . O X O |
$$ | . X . O O . . X . O . . O . X X X O . |
$$ | X O O X O . . . . . . . . O . . a O . |
$$ | O . O X . . . X . . . . . . O . X O . |
$$ | . X X X . O . . . . . . . X X X X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . W X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X . , O . . O O , O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O O . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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