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 Post subject: When the game goes bad early
Post #1 Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:40 am 
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We all have games occasionally that somehow has us in very bad position almost from the beginning or at least from the beginning. This also happens to pros and it is interesting to learn from situations were very good players go terribly wrong. Most pro games are very high quality and even slight mistakes can lose a game, but that is not what I am talking about, it is much rarer to see games that are very lopsided because of mistakes despite the high level of play.

I propose that we collect game records n this thread that we can be reasonably sure have big mistakes. One way to tell is when the game is short, but we can also find mistakes in other ways. I don't expect anyone to comment these games in any detail, just if you find games that go very bad for a professional player (or similar strength other player) in the opening or very early middlegame that you would post it here. Preferable if it is obvious that there is a big mistake (i.e. early resignation) but not necessarily obvious what the mistake is.


This post by kvasir was liked by 2 people: Elom0, Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #2 Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:45 am 
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White seems to lose ground quickly but the real surprise is what triggers the resignation.

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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #3 Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 12:40 am 
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Ueno Asami of https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18175 fame got into early trouble against Yuki Satoshi in game relayed on Pandanet last night. I woke up too early and caught the end of it. It was the 29th Agon/Kiriyama Preliminary Final.

It all started with what looks like an oversight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm23 White to play and get into trouble.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . X . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 3 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . X . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe black hoped for this...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . X . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #4 Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 1:25 pm 
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In he last Honinbo, Shibano was up 2-1 against Iyama. The fourth game meant either evening the match or nearly (ehem...) finishing it.

This is that 4th game. Only 124 moves, I think Iyama resigned even before lunch time of the second day. But if this had been a less important game, maybe he would have resigned before.



So, 3-1 after this. But the match... you know how it finished.


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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:53 am 
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That Honinbo title match was interesting, I feel like I saw it before myself, and I wonder how often Iyama fails like that.

I have one from this morning. It is another preliminary game, this time from the Judan tournament. I thought maybe white had some reason to be dissatisfied around move 50 but the computer says "No" and it is not until the final fight, after move 80, that white starts to lose ground. White gets into trouble quickly in the final fight but there don't appear to be large single move mistakes.

This game also validates that five groups might live but the sixth will die.


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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #6 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:18 am 
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"Ha Yongli" and "Wu Bai" are Ha Youngil and Wu Baiyi, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:36 am 
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These were the names given in Pandanet. I checked on gotoeveryone just now and it gives Ha Youngil and Wu Boyi. Possibly the former has a Korean name? I found them on the Kansai Kiin webpage and at least Wu Boyi is correct.

==Edit
I should have mentioned that "bai" and "bo" are different readings of the same character. "bai" is used in many words but "bo" is used for example to render words like Berlin, Dublin and Plato.

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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:11 am 
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Quote:
Ha Youngil and Wu Boyi. Possibly the former has a Korean name?


Ha Yeong-il was born in Osaka but has a Korean background. To the Japanese he is Ha Yon-iru. Wu Boyi is from Taiwan where they prefer the classical readings of many characters, hence Bo instead of mainland Bai. To the Japanese he is U Boi .

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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #9 Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:49 pm 
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Wu BoyiMurakawa Daisuke might become a theme in this thread!

He dealt a crushing blow to no other than Murakawa DaisukeWu Boyi in their Meijin Preliminary A Final. Showing how to attack the fancy connection before cutting! The game lasted only 74 moves and was over before lunch time.




=== EDIT
I appear to have made the mistake of swapping the players when it was indeed Murakawa who was the one striking the crushing blow. I'll try to edit the post to reflect the events more truthfully. I blame lack of more energetic sub-editors!

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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #10 Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 9:18 am 
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My attention was drawn to this game when browsing the Judan Preliminary A results. It's listed as a win on time, something unusual when the time limit is 3 hours and 5 times 1 minute overtime. I quickly realized that I had watched much of the game when it was broadcasted live on Pandanet but not to the end. It was a pure happenstance that I had found the game again this way.

While watching the game I remember being astonished by the resolution of the life and death of the two black stones in the upper left corner. "Why didn't he simply live locally?" I'd have exclaimed around move 61, if I were more found to talking to myself. I reckoned at the time that move 51 B17?! was not a move I liked. This slide into the solid corner is played all too often. What effect does it have on white? The knight's move is also weak when it's this close to the wall. Still it looks like a move to live locally, yet black refuses to simply live and runs the gauntlet an gets out into the center instead. That took a lot of doing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ | . 1 . O O . O . . . . . . . O X . . .|
$$ | . . . O X X O . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ | . . X O . O X O X . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X .|
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . X O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


An improvement:
White can of course play other moves but it should be better to play first the move that white will respond directly to and finish with the necessary move, when that second move is not forceful. I think black should be happy to live locally. Since white is unlikely to let black walk out into the center, when the black group has this good eye space, it is likely that something like this would actually happen.

Alternatively white could use a contact move like "a" or "b" to block the center and black could play "c" instead of :b3:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ | . 3 . O O . O . . . . . . . O X . . .|
$$ | . . . O X X O . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ | . . X O . O X O X . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X .|
$$ | . . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . b O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , 2 . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . X O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


What happened in the game really took a lot of doing. The computer would break it down to this move lost this many points and so on but that is not germane. All in all the sequence is -12.5 against black and could have been -15 if white had found all the best moves. I think what is most likely is that black made one or two genuine mistakes and then found himself in a situation where it is more important to generate chances than it is to play the best move, black chooses to double down as a better way to generate chances. I don't know if that was the right choice, I have doubts, it could be better to be less behind in case black generates some chance anyway :scratch:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ | . 2 . O O . O . . . . . . . O X . . .|
$$ | . . . O X X O . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ | . . X O . O X O X . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . 4 3 5 . . X X . . . . . . . . . X .|
$$ | . 9 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . 7 8 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . 0 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . X O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . .|
$$ | . X . O O . O . . . . . . . O X . . .|
$$ | . . . O X X O . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ | . 1 X O . O X O X . . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . X O O . . X X . . . . . . . . . X .|
$$ | . O X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X . O 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . , 6 . . 8 . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ | . O O . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O X O O 3 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . X X O X X 0 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ | . X O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


Here is the game record. It was not a short game even if black got into trouble early. I think white played really well, white was patient and was never provoked. White was so stoic that I imagine black trying to setup a cool resignation sequence at the end but with white refusing to go for it. In the end black appears to have lost on time, maybe that was just that he didn't want to say "I lost" :D


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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #11 Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:28 pm 
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I found another short game. It is Chinese and Korean players but I don't know what the event was. I'm not sure if this game qualifies as going bad early but 129 moves is not much.

White had an ambitious strategy out of the opening and didn't defend the corner. There was a way to cope in the corner, likely something similar to what happened in the game but with more effect in white's favor. That is why I think the game was probably fine until the last couple of moves but I'd guess black was slightly better. Black appears to have good flow when the ko in the upper left corner is resolved.

It is not until the very end that there is a disaster. You might want to guess black 129.


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 Post subject: Re: When the game goes bad early
Post #12 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:05 pm 
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Here is a good a one, Leo got burnt in the opening. His opponent, Watanabe Kouki 4d, was hungry for the win. He played a sharp move at :b25: and :b45: was ominous. You got to pay attention to eyes in the corner. The attack that followed was severe and effective. It wasn't until :w92: that it was white's turn to counter attack but that was to no avail.

The reason that white resigned is that black is connected. White will have to defend the shape in the corner and black will then coast through the endgame.


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