It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:54 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 176 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

Who will win: Lee Sedol or AlphaGo?
Lee Sedol crushing victory (5-0) 26%  26%  [ 29 ]
Lee Sedol comfortable victory (4-1) 31%  31%  [ 35 ]
Lee Sedol close victory (3-2) 14%  14%  [ 16 ]
Too close to call 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
AlphaGo close victory (2-3) 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
AlphaGo comfortable victory (1-4) 11%  11%  [ 12 ]
AlphaGo crushing victory (0-5) 5%  5%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 113
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #141 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:42 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 727
Liked others: 44
Was liked: 218
GD Posts: 10
I'm one of the six people who vote for AlphaGo 5-0, wondering who's the other five? Wanna know their reason ;)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #142 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:50 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2221
Location: Germany
Liked others: 8262
Was liked: 924
Rank: OGS 9k
OGS: trohde
Universal go server handle: trohde
I wish I’d voted for a 5:0 victory for Ali (AlphaGo’s nickname) here also like I did later (before the games) on FB. My decision was not based on any wishful thinking since I don’t have a preference for who “should” win, but rather on how I perceived the DeepMind team’s communication and scheduling.

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS? :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #143 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:10 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Lee Sedol wins game 4!

On Twitter Demis said:
‏@demishassabis wrote:
Mistake was on move 79, but #AlphaGo only came to that realisation on around move 87

Myungwan Kim also pointed out this mistake in his commentary: it should have been atari from below. From then on AlphaGo played a bunch of silly sentes reminiscent of the Monte Carlo bots.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #144 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:00 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 30
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 3
Rank: IGS 5k
AlphaGo is stronger when playing White. I wonder if komi gives it some kind of extra confidence! :D

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #145 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:29 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 448
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 187
Rank: BGA 3 dan
kaliya wrote:
AlphaGo is stronger when playing White. I wonder if komi gives it some kind of extra confidence! :D


If you are going anthropomorphic, it might make more sense to say it takes the komi to be (too) large.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #146 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:38 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 727
Liked others: 44
Was liked: 218
GD Posts: 10
I try to remember in computer go mailing list discuss that the correct Komi might be 4.5-5.5, but I can't find that thread anymore.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #147 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:56 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 310
Location: Deutschland
Liked others: 272
Was liked: 126
Rank: EGF 4 kyu
Charles Matthews wrote:
kaliya wrote:
AlphaGo is stronger when playing White. I wonder if komi gives it some kind of extra confidence! :D


If you are going anthropomorphic, it might make more sense to say it takes the komi to be (too) large.


It's equally possible that an unfairly large Komi would weaken the bot because it only tries to win by 0.5 points with high probability. The fact that the bot's fuseki is strong, as white and black, indicates to me that the Komi is not too far off.

Personally, I think Lee Se-dol was clutching at straws when he claimed that AlphaGo struggled when holding the black stones. Before move 78, the bot was ahead by country miles - way more than Komi. Afterwards, it blundered many times in a row and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. By that time, who played first was entirely irrelevant!

Also, let's not forget that the bot won game 2. You can quibble but a win is still a win.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #148 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:33 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1037
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 180
Charlie wrote:
....... because it only tries to win by 0.5 points with high probability.......


No, not what this (and other strong go playing programs are doing).

They make the move to have the highest probability of winning the game. They aren't trying to end up with half a point more than the opponent but to end up with AT LEAST half a point more than the opponent. That is the definition of winning.

Many of us are making an assumption that isn't true. Assuming that if (currently) ahead by X points a move that maintains that lead of X points necessarily has a higher probability of ending up at leastT a half point ahead (ie: winning the game) than some other move which instead gives up a point

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #149 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 3:27 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 310
Location: Deutschland
Liked others: 272
Was liked: 126
Rank: EGF 4 kyu
Mike Novack wrote:
They make the move to have the highest probability of winning the game. They aren't trying to end up with half a point more than the opponent but to end up with AT LEAST half a point more than the opponent. That is the definition of winning.


You're right. My wording was careless. You have a better way of saying it.

My point still stands - we cannot assume that incorrect Komi will have a predictable effect on the bot's play. It might be fair to say it would have *an* effect on the bot's play but assuming which way it would swing would require us to understand the bot's play and we simply don't.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #150 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:10 pm 
Judan

Posts: 6087
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 786
Alternative stream on game 5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZPKR7HzM_s

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #151 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:49 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
So after a thrilling match it ends 4-1 to AlphaGo, well done those 7 people who predicted it correctly. Before the match I had though Lee would win 5-0 or 4-1, but with a big uncertainty due to not knowing how much AlphaGo had improved since October, and it turns out to have improved a lot. How much more will it improve, will we see it giving 3 stones to top pros in a few years, as pros have in the past suggested they should take from God?

Attachment:
AlphaGo poll end.png
AlphaGo poll end.png [ 10.53 KiB | Viewed 8735 times ]


Last edited by Uberdude on Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #152 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:03 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 727
Liked others: 44
Was liked: 218
GD Posts: 10
I also wrong too since I predict AlphaGo to win 5-0.
4-1 is also okay i guess

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #153 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:40 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Just a little postscript that I saw Lee Sedol beat Kim Jiseok in the round of 8 of the Maxim cup today (with some very nice use of aji), so he's back from his holiday and still winning. I was a bit worried he might go into a slump after the loss to AlphaGo.



This post by Uberdude was liked by 2 people: Charlie, sorin
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #154 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:31 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 25
Liked others: 9
Was liked: 6
Rank: EGF 5d
Tygem: bringingup
Wbaduk: mystyle
A very interesting summary of the AlphaGo event and chosen comments of the games from Chinese professional point of view:

http://www.eurogofed.org/index.html?id=43


This post by Lucian was liked by: ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #155 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:01 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Translated reviews/summaries of the games from Lee Sedol himself:

http://badukinkorea.tumblr.com/


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #156 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:33 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 26
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 3
Does anyone know what's going on with AlphaGo? I thought we would hear something now if they had scheduled a match with Ke Jie. Are they still working on improving it at this time or are they moving on to doing something else with the AI they are developing?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #157 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:47 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 727
Liked others: 44
Was liked: 218
GD Posts: 10
Temp wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with AlphaGo? I thought we would hear something now if they had scheduled a match with Ke Jie. Are they still working on improving it at this time or are they moving on to doing something else with the AI they are developing?

We might heard more when 2016 US Go congress come since DeepMind members join it.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #158 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:11 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 26
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 3
pookpooi wrote:
Temp wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with AlphaGo? I thought we would hear something now if they had scheduled a match with Ke Jie. Are they still working on improving it at this time or are they moving on to doing something else with the AI they are developing?

We might heard more when 2016 US Go congress come since DeepMind members join it.

It's at end of July right? That's more than 3 months away.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #159 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:40 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 448
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 187
Rank: BGA 3 dan
Temp wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with AlphaGo? I thought we would hear something now if they had scheduled a match with Ke Jie. Are they still working on improving it at this time or are they moving on to doing something else with the AI they are developing?


I don't think anything is decided.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: AlphaGo vs Lee Sedol, who will win?
Post #160 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:42 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 26
Liked others: 6
Was liked: 3
Charles Matthews wrote:
Temp wrote:
Does anyone know what's going on with AlphaGo? I thought we would hear something now if they had scheduled a match with Ke Jie. Are they still working on improving it at this time or are they moving on to doing something else with the AI they are developing?


I don't think anything is decided.

Does anyone know if they are still working on improving it at this time? They admitted it was playing on Tygem before the Lee Sedol match right? Is it still playing there?

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 176 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group