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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #41 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:50 am 
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According to Nie Wei Ping in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3Rl9bhXrM

white had a good start after the first exchange at the top right (after W Q12, white right side has almost no aji whereas black influence at the top still needs to be demonstrated).

Then after the second exchange in the left bottom and white got sente to play the G16 move, annihilating black's top influence, the game was almost lost for Ke Jie.

In the post match interview,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3Rl9bhXrM&t=43m0s

Ke Jie said that he still doesn't know what is the good play for black after the first exchange at the top right since he too thinks that white is better.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #42 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:24 am 
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Thanks for the comments about the top right: that attachment does seem to be played a lot these days in a variety of positions and gets some nice results. But I can't help but wonder if the blame can be traced back to the solid connect at the lower right (move 11). I know this is a very common move, and the idea is to not give white the sente turn (though not 100% as we see in related AlphaGo opening) to bolster the right side so leaving more severe invasion aji, but it just looks so inefficient to me with the original shimari stone. I had a look at ps.waltheri and it has a bad win percentage whilst push on top is good, so I think my feelings may be be onto something here. I can't imagine AlphaGo would play the connection, and in the related AlphaGo opening with a 3-4 high approach attach under joseki in progress at top right it famously prefers to push on top instead of descend to 2nd line.
Attachment:
SolidConnect.GIF
SolidConnect.GIF [ 92.84 KiB | Viewed 932 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #43 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:56 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Thanks for the comments about the top right: that attachment does seem to be played a lot these days in a variety of positions and gets some nice results. But I can't help but wonder if the blame can be traced back to the solid connect at the lower right (move 11). I know this is a very common move, and the idea is to not give white the sente turn (though not 100% as we see in related AlphaGo opening) to bolster the right side so leaving more severe invasion aji, but it just looks so inefficient to me with the original shimari stone. I had a look at ps.waltheri and it has a bad win percentage whilst push on top is good, so I think my feelings may be be onto something here. I can't imagine AlphaGo would play the connection, and in the related AlphaGo opening with a 3-4 high approach attach under joseki in progress at top right it famously prefers to push on top instead of descend to 2nd line.
Attachment:
SolidConnect.GIF


Hi, could you tell me what website or application your screen capture is from? Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #44 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:59 am 
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http://ps.waltheri.net/ made by Jan Prokop, a Czech player.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #45 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:01 am 
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For those of you who speak Chinese, here is an analysis of the game between Ke Jie and Park Yeong-hun by Chang Hao (9p).



If anyone who has watched this could give us a summary, it'd be much appreciated. I myself am specifically interested in what Chang Hao thinks is the losing move(s) or losing exchange(s) for Ke Jie.

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #46 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:07 am 
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Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #47 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:26 am 
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xiayun wrote:
Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


Thank you very much!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #48 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:27 am 
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xiayun wrote:
Some summary of the video:

1. Chang Hao liked the exchange at the top-right for white (around the 17:30 mark in the video) since by move 38, white got very good territory on the right especially given black spent two extra moves.

2. Chang Hao questioned b53 (@29:00), thinking extending up at C10 or playing E4 first would be better. He thought even though black ended up capturing the two middle stones, white got more territory from the left and the bottom where Park could focus on reducing b's potential with move 66. Black wasn't necessarily behind by then, but it was always a question how Ke could efficiently turn the outside influence into real points.

3. He wondered (@39:25) if before b85, black could have played the cut at C12 first, or maybe as a ko threat when the ko was still active. An exchange of c12 + b12 would allow b to extend at e13 later to connect instead of resorting to h14. H14 ended up helping white as w just naturally sacrificed the one stone while eliminating all the influence b had from the right group. By move 98, he said it's going to be difficult for b in term of territory. He did a count at that time (@45:00) and had both b and w at 55 points, and w had little weakness by then.


Thank you very much, and happy holidays!

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #49 Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Hi,
does anyone know when the final is taking place ?
Thanks a lot

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 Post subject: Re: 11th Chunlan Cup
Post #50 Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:41 am 
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AleXi3l wrote:
Hi,
does anyone know when the final is taking place ?
Thanks a lot


June 2017

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