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 Post subject: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:05 am 
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The China Weiqi Leagues (also called Chinese Cities Leagues) do not get much attention on this forum but are actually very exciting with many international players participating. And when they do get some discussion usually it's about the A-league. But in my opinion the B-league and C-league are even more intense and more exciting than the A-league when they do have their annual meeting. And they are having their annual go congress style meeting this week.

And maybe not everybody knows this but Team Japan (their official name is Team China-Japan Friendship) has been playing in the C-League for 4 years in a row now. They started out playing in the B-league in 2012 but finished last place and got demoted to the C-league that year. For the past 3 years they have been fighting to get back to the B-league. This year they sent a strong team of Ida Atsushi, Ichiriki Ryo, Yu Zhengqi and Hsu Chiayuan (basically the same team as 2014 with Ichiriki Ryo replacing Yao Zhiteng). After 6 rounds they have 4 wins 2 ties and are leading the C-league with 10 points with 1 round left to play. They only need a tie in the last round to guarantee a spot in the B-league next year. So far Ichiriki Ryo and Hsu Chiayuan have won all 6 matches at 2nd and 4th position. Yu Zhengqi only lost 2 matches, and Ida Atsushi went 2 and 4 at the more competitive top position.

By the way Taiwan has two teams playing in the C-league but are in 8th and 12th position (out of total 28 teams!) so no hope to be promoted to B-league with only 1 round left.

The men's and women's B-league are playing at the same time. There are 11 Korean players playing in the men's B-league, including Lee Sedol(his team was demoted from A-league last year), Park Yeonghun, Na Hyun, An Sungjoon, Byun Sangil and Cho Hanseung. Lee Sedol beat his student Shin Minjun in the first round and is 5 and 1 after 6 rounds. The women's teams employed 6 top ranked Koreans of Choi Jeong, Oh Yujin, Park Jiyeon, Park Shiun, Oh Jeonga and Song Hyeryung.


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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #2 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:50 am 
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Lee Sedol's game against An Sungjoon was rather exciting:



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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #3 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Do you have the link to results online somewhere? I've only been able to get results from Nihon Kiin.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #4 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:34 pm 
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oren wrote:
Do you have the link to results online somewhere? I've only been able to get results from Nihon Kiin.


Here is a blog (in traditional Chinese) containing results from B-League, C-League and Women's League.


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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:56 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
Lee Sedol's game against An Sungjoon was rather exciting [..]

Oh wow, yes … but I wonder: is it common that players resign that late? To me it looks as if they’d been filling in Dame points already for a few moves when An Sungjoon resigned …

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #6 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:20 pm 
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gamesorry wrote:
Here is a blog (in traditional Chinese) containing results from B-League, C-League and Women's League.


Thanks! It helps to see everything now.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #7 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:47 pm 
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How strong are teams in the C league?

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #8 Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:18 pm 
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Some of players are very strong. This league finishes tournament in short period of time. So some players prefer this league over class A league.
For instance, Lee Sedol is one of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #9 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:41 am 
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trout wrote:
Some of players are very strong. This league finishes tournament in short period of time. So some players prefer this league over class A league.
For instance, Lee Sedol is one of them.


Lee Sedol is playing in B League, which happens at the same time and should be stronger than C League. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #10 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:15 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
How strong are teams in the C league?


The C league teams are normally not very strong. Unlike the B league teams that often invest big money to have strong guest players, C league teams mainly have lower ranked players. For example, at round 7, the Japanese players goratings ranks are: 62, 93, 105, 145. The opponents' ranks are: 235, 317, 442, & one new shodan player without rank. So there's no surprise that the Japanese team can do really well - they are simply stronger.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #11 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:30 am 
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Are any of the new European (or AGA) pros playing in the C league? I seem to recall some discussions or plans to this effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #12 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:51 am 
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gamesorry wrote:
trout wrote:
Some of players are very strong. This league finishes tournament in short period of time. So some players prefer this league over class A league.
For instance, Lee Sedol is one of them.


Lee Sedol is playing in B League, which happens at the same time and should be stronger than C League. :)


Sorry. I was confused between B and C. Was wondering why B was missing.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #13 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:07 am 
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gamesorry wrote:
oren wrote:
Do you have the link to results online somewhere? I've only been able to get results from Nihon Kiin.


Here is a blog (in traditional Chinese) containing results from B-League, C-League and Women's League.


Thanks this is a well organized page with results of all the games! I have been getting results from sports page of sina.com but they only report results for each rounds. This is much cleaner and easier to see performance of any player or team.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #14 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:53 am 
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trout wrote:
Some of players are very strong. This league finishes tournament in short period of time. So some players prefer this league over class A league.
For instance, Lee Sedol is one of them.

The reason why Lee is playing B league is that he is not satisfied with his performance in A league last year (6-6) and very sorry about that.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #15 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:17 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
How strong are teams in the C league?

To add a bit more info to what Mace Lee said, C league teams only need to register to play (although players still need to be active pros with one amateur allowed at the 4th position) so there are more variations in strength between teams. That said the competitions are still fierce. Team Japan won the promotion to B-league next year but they basically sent the best possible team (Ko Reibun (Nie Weiping's son) said they got lucky with scheduling) and they might not have advanced if Ichiriki Ryo (who went 6 and 1 at 2nd positon) did not replace Yao Zhiteng in this line up. Team Taiwan Zhonghuan also send a very strong team (with Xiao Zhenghao, Wang Yuanjun, Chen Qirui and Lin Shuyang) but finished 5th and could not advance to B-league.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #16 Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:25 am 
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Team Japan won the last round 3-1 and will play in the B-league next year! Organizer of team Japan Ko Reibun said he would try to get Iyama to play if the schedule allows. Since Lee Sedol's team is only in 5th position with one round to go we might see an Iyama - Lee showdown next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #17 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:25 am 
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Has the level of Japanese Go declined this much? I'm beginning to get the feeling that even if Japan had sent Iyama, Takao, and Yamashita, they still wouldn't make it into the A-League.

By the way, how did GoRatings.org rank Iyama as high as number two in the world?!

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #18 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:43 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
How strong are teams in the C league?


C-League is the weakest of the three and has the shortest time controls. It's basically used to qualify for the B-League, and B-League serves as a qualification league to get into the A-League. The A-League is where all the players aspire to play in and where only the strongest are admitted.

And the fact that Japan has been toiling in the C-League is kind of humbling to say the least. That said, the Chinese League system is no walk in the park because it's open to the very best players regardless of their countries of origin. Lee Sedol has been playing in the Chinese League for years. Park Yeong-hun, Lee Changho, Choi Cheol-han, Park Junghwan, and other top Korean players have all participated. Because of this, the Chinese A-League is possibly the most competitive gathering in the world outside of major international tournaments.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #19 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:17 am 
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by78 wrote:
By the way, how did GoRatings.org rank Iyama as high as number two in the world?!
Simple model: his average Japanese opponent has a rating of X, and he beats them something like 80% of the time. According to the ELO system, that implies he is 200-250 ELO points higher than his average opponent, which puts him in the top five or so players.

There are definitely ways this model could fail to be accurate, but that's the gist of it, and it makes decent sense. See also: viewtopic.php?p=204691#p204691.

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 Post subject: Re: Team Japan leading China Weiqi C-League
Post #20 Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:31 am 
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by78 wrote:
Has the level of Japanese Go declined this much? I'm beginning to get the feeling that even if Japan had sent Iyama, Takao, and Yamashita, they still wouldn't make it into the A-League.

By the way, how did GoRatings.org rank Iyama as high as number two in the world?!

I'm sure Team Japan will not be promoted to A-League. A-League is too competitive for these players (except Iyama). For example, Team Shandong has three very strong players Zhou Ruiyang, Jiang Weijie and Fan Tingyu, but their performances as captain are Zhou 2-4, Jiang 0-2, Fan 0-1. Another example is Tang Weixing, whose career performance in A-League is only 76-71.

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