It is currently Wed May 24, 2017 2:28 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #61 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:43 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 40
Liked others: 23
Was liked: 3
John Fairbairn wrote:
You may also understand now why I didn't bother trying of give a sample - I'd have to end up giving a whole chapter.


Thank you very much for the description! I wish we had an English translation of this book, I would like very much to read it.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #62 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:31 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 45
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
sorin wrote:
Can somebody who has it give an example from this book? I became very curious after reading John's description.


John Fairbairn wrote:
The book, "How to think about Joseki," is a waste of time unless you read idiomatic Japanese. The format is writer Mihori Sho asking Go questions and Go answering at some length. Go never dumbs down and all the meat is in the text. "Meat" seems especially appropriate as it's a slim book (160 pages) but very high protein content. The subtitle in fact is "Concentrated course for dan players."


I totally agree with John that it is a waste of time if you do not understand the language and try to read the book using only the diagrams.

However if you do understand Japanese or have a translation of the book (I have the Chinese translation) I do think it is still a good read for dan level players maybe even strong SDKs. The Q and A format of the book was actually designed to be more friendly to amateurs.

The whole book consists of series of conversations between a made up character Mr. Q (assumed to be amateur 2 dan) and Go Seigen. Mr. Q would ask questions any curious amateur would normally ask about josekis in pro games, and Go would explain why certain moves (often slight deviation or less common variations of standard josekis) were played using words and diagrams. To give you a taste here is the very first series.

Mr. Q asked Go sensei why :w10: in Diagram 1 was not played at the usual low position "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 0 . , 8 . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . 1 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 3 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Go: The usual "Kitani Joseki" is at :w1: (Diagram 2). After that moves :b2: to :b8: immediately comes to mind. In this position you can probably tell that :w1: would be better played at "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Diagram 2
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . a . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Mr. Q: I still don't see it.
Go: That is, if :w1: was at "a" instead, then after :b8: white would immediately attach at b, and now do you see a mojo developing on the top side? The effects of "a" and :w1: are quite different. In this game, black played 4-5 points on both top left and bottom right, that is why white decided to play the higher knight's move at "a".

In the book Go continued to explain a little about the actual game where black played moves to avoid the outcome shown in Diagram 2 (Black did not play on the right side to finish the joseki, instead he immediately played a move to protect top left corner).


This post by wolfking was liked by: Drew
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #63 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:48 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 222
Location: 中国
Liked others: 176
Was liked: 66
Rank: infant
Wolfking, what is the name of the Chinese translation?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #64 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:44 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 45
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Drew wrote:
Wolfking, what is the name of the Chinese translation?


The title of the Chinese translation is How to Apply Josekis (定式的运用), translated by Guo Tisheng(过惕生) and Geng Yi(庚奕), published by People's Sports Publishing House (人民体育出版社).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #65 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:41 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 222
Location: 中国
Liked others: 176
Was liked: 66
Rank: infant
wolfking wrote:
Drew wrote:
Wolfking, what is the name of the Chinese translation?


The title of the Chinese translation is How to Apply Josekis (定式的运用), translated by Guo Tisheng(过惕生) and Geng Yi(庚奕), published by People's Sports Publishing House (人民体育出版社).


Thanks. This is it, yah?

Image

Really putting a strain on my wallet at $1.50 + shipping :lol:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #66 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:50 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 2
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
On the off chance someone is reading this thread who doesn't read /r/baduk on reddit, here's a link to an English subtitled analysis by a 9D pro of his game with alphago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupHEQbuc30


This post by andrewgr was liked by: ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #67 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:30 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 45
Liked others: 42
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: wolfking6504
Tygem: wolfking97
Drew wrote:

Thanks. This is it, yah?

Really putting a strain on my wallet at $1.50 + shipping :lol:

Yes this is the one! The book was published in the 80s so quality was not that great but cannot beat the price! :D

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #68 Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:05 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 117
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
I'm working on a translation of a talk show program that has a lot of culture, but it is a big project as there are more phrases I am not familiar with and the program is a long 90 minutes. Here is what I have so far.



Attachments:
heart1.sgf [10.77 KiB]
Downloaded 595 times

This post by dhu163 was liked by 5 people: apetresc, gamesorry, Solomon, sorin, wolfking
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #69 Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:21 am 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
DHu, have you had a chance to finish this translation? I love these kinds of very personal commentaries where context and personal emotion is included in addition to game variations.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #70 Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:14 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 117
Liked others: 10
Was liked: 128
Rank: UK 2d Dec15
KGS: mathmo 4d
IGS: mathmo 4d
I'm afraid I haven't gotten any further. Also, I'm going into uni exam term, so I don't think I can commit much time to these translations.

On the other hand, thank you for your appreciation, I'll see what I can do.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: translation of a 9d pro commentary
Post #71 Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:20 pm 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Thanks Dhu - Take your time and good luck at school. If you find the time to finish it eventually, that would be great! :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], HKA and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group