It is currently Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:40 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
Online
 Post subject: Park Hamin 7p vs. Cho Hanseung 9p Interesting Move 35
Post #1 Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:08 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1607
Location: Earth
Liked others: 602
Was liked: 272
What is your move? If you like to use AI, look deeper.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black to move
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . W b . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , O X . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . a X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Park Hamin 7p vs. Cho Hanseung 9p Interesting Move 35
Post #2 Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:46 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 110
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 17
Rank: KGS 1d
O2 is my move with idea to cut if white not defend, and if white defend, then i consider it as good forcing move for me. But i am pretty sure, its not what ultimately will be judged as best move for black. Afterall its not coincidence that i am not even a high dan KGS player. I didnt use any AI, that was my first thought and after some deliberations i think i would play that move in tournament game.


This post by AloneAgainstAll was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Park Hamin 7p vs. Cho Hanseung 9p Interesting Move 35
Post #3 Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:16 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 36
Liked others: 8
Was liked: 10
Rank: EGF 2d
I see a cut, I play a cut
L5 for me


This post by Leon was liked by: Gomoto
Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Park Hamin 7p vs. Cho Hanseung 9p Interesting Move 35
Post #4 Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:25 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1607
Location: Earth
Liked others: 602
Was liked: 272
The game variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . 6 O 0 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 4 O 1 7 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , O X 5 O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . B . 2 X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


alternative variation (black can exchange a for b):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . 4 . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O b . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 2 O X . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 1 X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


perhaps black hoped for this variation (black can continue with a or b):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . b O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O 1 a . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 6 . 2 X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Park Hamin 7p vs. Cho Hanseung 9p Interesting Move 35
Post #5 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:38 am 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2290
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Liked others: 2170
Was liked: 1293
Rank: Jp 6 dan
KGS: ez4u
Playing around with katago (40-block), I think that just before this is also interesting. Katago calculates that the shoulder hit at "a" played in the game is not bad, but not the best. At 100K blue is the other shoulder hit at "b". However, the pincer at 1 is right in there, slightly better than "a" and slightly worse than "b". Katago calculates that Black peeps at 2. The interesting point is how to answer :w3: and what to expect?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . a . 3 O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 1 . X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

At around 200K, katago prefers attaching at :b1: below and letting White cut through the knight's move (!) while capturing the pincer stone. This gives White sente to turn away to the top.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . 8 . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 9 1 4 2 O O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 5 O 3 X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Almost as good, however, is pushing up at :b1: below. Rather than continuing on the bottom, Black answers the cut with :b3: in order to play against the White stones on the right with :b7:. This idea is not on my radar screen at all. :) The only idea I would have for playing this :b1: would be to build strength to play on the bottom.

EDIT: As is not too uncommon in my case, I forgot to close katago when I wrote and posted all this. When I noticed later, katago shifted :b7: below to "a" somewhere on the way to 1 million PO's. Black may or may not get back the right side later. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . 5 O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 4 2 X 3 . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 1 O O . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O . X . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


This post by ez4u was liked by 2 people: Gomoto, hyperpape
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group