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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #21 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:18 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:

What does seem unreasonable is all the rights you grant them, along with the right to change their terms -- and that's for the free account! :shock: (Shocked but not surprised.)


What rights do you grant them?


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #22 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:49 pm 
Honinbo

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Go_Japan wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:

What does seem unreasonable is all the rights you grant them, along with the right to change their terms -- and that's for the free account! :shock: (Shocked but not surprised.)


What rights do you grant them?


Read the terms of service.

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #23 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:32 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Go_Japan wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:

What does seem unreasonable is all the rights you grant them, along with the right to change their terms -- and that's for the free account! :shock: (Shocked but not surprised.)


What rights do you grant them?


Read the terms of service.


this? https://account.nicovideo.jp/rules/acco ... uage=en-us
I don't see anything really strange there. I read it very quickly, but the only thing they ask is for copyright of all the text you write on niconico. I have seen them advertise with the videos on their site and the text overlaid on top, so it makes sense. They just want to be able to use it in their advertising and other promotions without someone claiming copyright of the text they write in the comments. Is there something else?

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #24 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:29 pm 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
Go_Japan wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:

What does seem unreasonable is all the rights you grant them, along with the right to change their terms -- and that's for the free account! :shock: (Shocked but not surprised.)


What rights do you grant them?


Read the terms of service.


Go_Japan wrote:
this? https://account.nicovideo.jp/rules/acco ... uage=en-us
I don't see anything really strange there. I read it very quickly, but the only thing they ask is for copyright of all the text you write on niconico. I have seen them advertise with the videos on their site and the text overlaid on top, so it makes sense. They just want to be able to use it in their advertising and other promotions without someone claiming copyright of the text they write in the comments. Is there something else?


Everybody can read the TOS and make up their own mind. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #25 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:07 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:

Everybody can read the TOS and make up their own mind. :)


Well, of course, but I was wondering about your opinion, since you mentioned that you didn't like it. I'm not arguing, just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #26 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:41 pm 
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I open 3 streams simultaneously (jp+en+aga) without any problem but I muted the Japanese one though cause I don't understand the language and just want to see winrate. I'm also nonpremium account so I can't see winrate all the time and only rarely see zen's territory evaluation (or is it just a count?), but that's ok. It's true that Redmond stream is not in HD though.

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #27 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:48 pm 
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pookpooi wrote:
I open 3 streams simultaneously (jp+en+aga) without any problem but I muted the Japanese one though cause I don't understand the language and just want to see winrate. I'm also nonpremium account so I can't see winrate all the time and only rarely see zen's territory evaluation (or is it just a count?), but that's ok. It's true that Redmond stream is not in HD though.

I have premium account and I watched the Japanese stream. I could not see the winrate all the time, but perhaps there is a way to see it that I am not aware of.

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Go_Japan wrote:
I have premium account and I watched the Japanese stream. I could not see the winrate all the time, but perhaps there is a way to see it that I am not aware of.

Person in reddit said it's some kind of overlay, I don't know either, but I'm happy to streaming without stuttering and not kick out of the room.

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #29 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:33 pm 
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Next AlphaGo match should do this too, but I heard they don't show it because they want to keep the audience suspended and commentator surprised.
Image
But I don't care, I want to see it anyway ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:15 am 
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Zen won the second game with a typical big centre kill of Cho's desperate invasion.


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:48 am 
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Link's to Antti and Michael's commentary.

Game 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_f4ZYlPsLY

Game 1

https://youtube.com/watch?v=QDVUXWKshC8


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #32 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:32 am 
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Thanks for the links!

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #33 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Since I’m not aware that we’d already have an SGF for the 2nd game, here is one, posted by Shigeru Mabuchi on the “computer-go” mailing list (http://computer-go.org/pipermail/comput ... 09633.html)




Attachment:
Denousen2016-Chochikun-DeepZenGo-Round2.sgf [1.59 KiB]
Downloaded 1444 times

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #34 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:44 am 
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PlaySlow wrote:
Link's to Antti and Michael's commentary. [..]


Thank you … linking them inline and adding the other videos with Myungwan Kim’s comments also so that everybody can watch directly here:
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Game 1
Nihon Ki-In video with comments by Michael Redmond and Antti Tormänen


AGA video with comments by Myungwan Kim




Game 2
Nihon Ki-In video with comments by Michael Redmond and Antti Tormänen


AGA video with comments by Myungwan Kim (yeah, it’s really game 2 ;-) )

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #35 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:36 am 
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I think the SGF with comments by Michael Redmond hasn’t been posted here yet, has it?



(From http://www.usgo.org/news/2016/11/deep-zen-go-wins-game-2-final-game-tuesday-night/)

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #36 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:42 am 
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With this result I estimated that DeepZenGo is about the same level as AlphaGo v13 run on single machine version. But my friend said that Cho Chikun is much stronger than Fan Hui, so it'll take AlphaGo v13 on distribute version to win against him even just one game out of three. Can Zen reach v18 strength before Dwango contract terminated? (March 2017)

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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #37 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:42 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
With this result...

For those who missed it: Cho won the 3rd game. Zen made a big moyo with Cho taking solid territory and Cho played an endgame move that looked a bit small when Zen ignored to close the centre in a large scale, but Cho's move had some added value in giving the option to take one of Zen's groups down to 1 eye in sente and then Cho made a cut and Zen suddenly resigned (I think Zen can still live but Cho gets good sente profit).


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Post #38 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:59 am 
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Quote:
Zen suddenly resigned
A little bird said Zen's self-assessed win rate was ~60%, and it was Kato sensei who resigned for Zen, not Zen itself.

Mr. Iyama was still studying the position (inconclusive).

The Chinese top pros watching were also studying the position (also inconclusive).

( My gut feeling is it was a human error to resign for Zen ;
Others more resourceful please fact check... )


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:07 am 
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Interesting, look like Hideki want to prevent long moment of awkward that will lead to 'AlphaGo resigned' , but he should trust his program a little bit more. #RobotRight #EqualityForAI


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 Post subject: Re: Cho Chihoon vs AI(DeepZenGo)
Post #40 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:53 am 
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