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The Reign of Ke Jie
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13861		 Page 13 of 18
Author:  pookpooi [ Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Quote:
The second event is the Wu Chingyuan Cup (“Go Seigen” in Japanese pronunciation) to be held in Wu’s birth city Fuzhou of Fujian Province in China. Twenty eight players will be invited for this late-April event, including possibly six from Europe and two from North America. This event is sponsored by the Fuzhou city government, with support from Go Seigen’s family who donated the naming right. In parallel, there will be an exhibition match between world champion Ke Jie and “a top AI program”.

From http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/12/two-ne ... announced/

And this time they'll use robot to put a stone! http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2017-12-27 ... 3700.shtml
Author:  bugcat [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
I'm surprised to see Go Seigen namedropped for an international _women's_ tournament (because that's what it is). I don't understand why anybody that was a good choice; if they're going to use anyone's name, it should be a female player. Where's the relevance?
Author:  WindCaliber [ Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Caesura wrote:
Hi, I posted that comment in Reddit. To add on, another report speculates on the reason why Ke Jie will only be playing Tian rang, as follows. It says that Fineart is seen as too strong, making the match uncompetitive, while deepzengo was not suitable as it was now the "secret weapon" for the Japanese national team. Chinese Source: https://36kr.com/p/5110088.html

If that is the actual reason Ke Jie is not facing FineArt, that's extremely disappointing. As for DeepZenGo, I'm not totally understanding the reasoning.
pookpooi wrote:
And this time they'll use robot to put a stone! http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2017-12-27 ... 3700.shtml

I agree with the redditor who says that this is unnecessary and distracting.
Author:  John Fairbairn [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Quote:
I'm surprised to see Go Seigen namedropped for an international _women's_ tournament (because that's what it is). I don't understand why anybody that was a good choice; if they're going to use anyone's name, it should be a female player. Where's the relevance?


There's plenty of relevance. First, Go Seigen was born in Fujian Province where Fuzhou is a major city. Sponsors include Fuzhou Municipality and Fuzhou Bosi Software. Second, there was a Go Seigen Cup last month for U18 players (won by Zhao Zhongxuan), so this can be seen as the start of a raft of events bearing a favourite's son's name.

Third, the Senko Cup is not exactly new but expanded from domestic to world status (Fujisawa Rina is the holder) and women's go is enjoying a boom in Japan, both in professional and amateur circles. I'm sure the ever-generous Chinese feel it is worth encouraging women even further by using the name of a player who straddled both Japan and China, and who is probably respected by female players just as much as by male players.

And of course naming rights have become a major strand of modern competition funding.
Author:  event_horizon [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
WindCaliber wrote:
If that is the actual reason Ke Jie is not facing FineArt, that's extremely disappointing. As for DeepZenGo, I'm not totally understanding the reasoning.

I think Tian rang will still be the heavy favourite in April.

btw Ke said he would accept handicaps against Go software if 'go fans want it'.
Author:  Gomoto [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Ke Jie is just cool. But no books available in english yet?
Author:  Caesura [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
event_horizon wrote:

btw Ke said he would accept handicaps against Go software if 'go fans want it'.


That will be very interesting. We all know computers have surpassed humans in Go, but having such matches will let us know: by how many stones ? This is something unique to Go that we can't find out in chess. In fact, I think these matches should be held, say, annually. Computers can demonstrate their continued improvement, while humans have a chance to show how much we have improved by learning from the software.

WindCaliber wrote:
If that is the actual reason Ke Jie is not facing FineArt, that's extremely disappointing. As for DeepZenGo, I'm not totally understanding the reasoning.


I don't fully understand the reasoning either regarding zen. As for FineArt, i can see the attraction in having a more competitive match.
Author:  hyperpape [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
While handicap chess isn't as common as go, Hikaru Nakamuru (top ten in the world) played a handicap match against Komodo two years ago. The eventual result was 3 draws, 1 win for the computer. https://en.chessbase.com/post/wsj-on-od ... -vs-komodo

One difference you see is that comments indicate that Hikaru made a mistake quite early (move 3 in the first game), perhaps because handicap chess is so much less common.
Author:  pookpooi [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
I just remember that only AlphaGo was retired, but AlphaZero is not, and AlphaZero 'happens' to have the ability to play go too ;)
Author:  bugcat [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
John Fairbairn wrote:
...Go Seigen was born in Fujian Province where Fuzhou is a major city. Sponsors include Fuzhou Municipality and Fuzhou Bosi Software.


Ah, somehow I missed that it was being held in Go Seigen's birth town; that makes sense and is reasonable then. Thanks for that detailed reply.
Author:  bugcat [ Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Caesura wrote:
... another report speculates on the reason why Ke Jie will only be playing Tian rang, as follows. It says that Fineart is seen as too strong, making the match uncompetitive ...


Perhaps we are already nearing the end of the brief period of serious human competition with AI? It was only about two years at the outside but it was a fun time. We got Yi Setol vs AlphaGo, Cho Chikun vs Zen, then finally a culmination in the once-in-a-generation Go Summit at Wuzhen -- and all of it livestreamed with Western commentators!

I dare say we'll see something like a FineArt vs DeepZenGo best-of-three soon, as computer vs computer is still untapped at the high-publicity level. But even that'll become not hugely popular after a while, and engines'll probably settle down quite quickly into being largely training tools and opening researchers like in chess.
Author:  Uberdude [ Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Ke Jie played Lee Sedol today. After fierce fighting with a big ko and lots of trades Lee won by 1.5 points.
Author:  pookpooi [ Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Uberdude wrote:
Ke Jie played Lee Sedol today. After fierce fighting with a big ko and lots of trades Lee won by 1.5 points.

Image
Author:  sorin [ Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Uberdude wrote:
Ke Jie played Lee Sedol today. After fierce fighting with a big ko and lots of trades Lee won by 1.5 points.


I liked the game, both players had some clear AlphaGo influence: Lee Sedol played an early 3x3 invasion, and Ke Jie did two contact plays against Lee's micro-Chinese framework.

What the occasion for the game - it doesn't seem to be a major tournament?
Author:  Kirby [ Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
sorin wrote:

What the occasion for the game - it doesn't seem to be a major tournament?


It wasn’t a major tournament. The sponsor was the hotel where it happened. Just an event for the new year, organized by the hotel and the Hangul Kiwon (people staying at the hotel could watch for free). It was broadcast on BadukTV, as well as jtbc in Korea, so it got some attention there.

Lee Sedol won about $30,000 (USD) + a Hyundai Kona SUV (worth about $20,000). Ke Jie got $10,000 for participating.
Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Lee Sedol was the local boy: the Haevichi Resort is on Jeju island off the south coast of Korea, where Lee was born and grew up (until he went to baduk school in Seoul, there's stories from his early life in his commented games books).

Edit: wrong island!
Author:  Kirby [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Uberdude wrote:
Lee Sedol was the local boy: the Haevichi Resort is on Jeju island off the south coast of Korea, where Lee was born and grew up (until he went to baduk school in Seoul, there's stories from his early life in his commented games books).


Lee Sedol was certainly more local than Ke Jie, but he wasn’t born on Jeju island. He was born on an island called Bigeumdo (which may be redundant since the “do” part means island). Bigeumdo is in the southwest part of Korea, and is more of a rural farming area than the tourist attraction that Jeju island has become.
Author:  bugcat [ Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Is there a kifu available on online? It sounds like one of the more interesting games of this month.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
Author:  Gomoto [ Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Reign of Ke Jie
There was a question on reddit a few days ago about the strength of Zen 7 (commercial version) compared to top pros.

Zen 7 is really struggeling to understand this interesting fighting game!

Conclusion: Ke Jie and Lee Sedol are way stronger than Zen 7. (Yeah, Captain Obvious. But if anybody is interested he can try to run his own analysis of this game with Zen or Leela and he can experience the difference first hand :lol:)
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