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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #61 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:17 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
I think this should be the last human tournament that has AI participate in it regardless of the outcome.
But I'm not the one who pay the money to the winner, to run the event, so... I'll just watch it quietly here ;)


Strongly disagree with your negative views, AI should and will participate more and more.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #62 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:45 am 
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alphaville wrote:
Strongly disagree with your negative views, AI should and will participate more and more.

I think there's a time limit to how long it would be interesting to have AIs compete together with humans. Certainly there's completely no point in chess, and I don't see much reason that AIs wouldn't be able to put a similar margin in skill between themselves and humans eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #63 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:47 am 
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alphaville wrote:
Strongly disagree with your negative views, AI should and will participate more and more.


I also expect this will be the last one. I don't think they ever should have participated in tournaments with people. The special matches outside of normal tournaments were fine.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #64 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:00 am 
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Besides Ryan, there are a number of other new faces as well. He Yang, e.g., just got his 1P last year and isn't even listed on goratings yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #65 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am 
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I doubt that there would be any super strong AIs except that for playing games like chess and go are simple, easy test projects. The success of AlphaGo and other strong AIs is commendable but go and chess are still just games with little significance in the wider world. AI should get on with the real job of improving life on the planet in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #66 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:40 pm 
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oren wrote:
alphaville wrote:
Strongly disagree with your negative views, AI should and will participate more and more.


I also expect this will be the last one. I don't think they ever should have participated in tournaments with people. The special matches outside of normal tournaments were fine.


Why so? It makes the games more interesting! It will depends on the sponsors really to decide.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #67 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:42 pm 
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gowan wrote:
I doubt that there would be any super strong AIs except that for playing games like chess and go are simple, easy test projects. The success of AlphaGo and other strong AIs is commendable but go and chess are still just games with little significance in the wider world. AI should get on with the real job of improving life on the planet in general.


Really? :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #68 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:21 pm 
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gowan wrote:
I doubt that there would be any super strong AIs except that for playing games like chess and go are simple, easy test projects. The success of AlphaGo and other strong AIs is commendable but go and chess are still just games with little significance in the wider world. AI should get on with the real job of improving life on the planet in general.


What specific "real jobs" do you have in mind? There have already been huge strides in a number of fields due to:
* Advancements in hardware
* Lots of data
* Machine learning techniques that can exploit the two items above

Computer vision, speech recognition, etc., have improved immensely. Customized experiences on the web (e.g. google news, Amazon product recommendations, etc.) have made the user experience online much more personal. Machine learning and AI are affecting many areas of life right now. And with the data and hardware that's currently available, things that used to be less feasible are now becoming reality.

Even "AlphaGo" was used to save 40% on cooling costs for data centers: https://deepmind.com/blog/deepmind-ai-r ... g-bill-40/, which is a very "real" problem.

I think in our lifetimes, many aspects of living will change at a rapid pace...

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #69 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:25 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
I agree that the program that enters the tournament should play the whole tournament.


Should humans also be prohibited from improving between rounds? I wonder how that would be enforced :)

I take the view that computer participation is about the performance of the authors of the program rather than the program itself (although with neural networks, the authors often don't understand what the program is doing). As such, it's a kind of programming/design competition. Of course, this is a mixed situation, and whether that should be allowed at all is a separate question.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #70 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
What specific "real jobs" do you have in mind?


I like this job.


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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #71 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
- Ryan Li beat Chen Yaoye !!!!!!!!!!
Huge congratulations :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: Probably the biggest ever upset by a Western player, over Hans beating Yoda, Dinerstein beating O Rissei or Aguilar's wins.

I hadn't remembered, but apparently Ryan Li has previously defeated both Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p for the 2016 Bailing Cup
http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/06/ryan-l ... -final-16/

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #72 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:05 pm 
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xed_over wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
- Ryan Li beat Chen Yaoye !!!!!!!!!!
Huge congratulations :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: Probably the biggest ever upset by a Western player, over Hans beating Yoda, Dinerstein beating O Rissei or Aguilar's wins.

I hadn't remembered, but apparently Ryan Li has previously defeated both Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p for the 2016 Bailing Cup
http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/06/ryan-l ... -final-16/


Was there a typo before? The current version is referring to Chen Yaoye for those accomplishments.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #73 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:07 pm 
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xiayun wrote:
xed_over wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
- Ryan Li beat Chen Yaoye !!!!!!!!!!
Huge congratulations :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: Probably the biggest ever upset by a Western player, over Hans beating Yoda, Dinerstein beating O Rissei or Aguilar's wins.

I hadn't remembered, but apparently Ryan Li has previously defeated both Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p for the 2016 Bailing Cup
http://www.usgo.org/news/2017/06/ryan-l ... -final-16/


Was there a typo before? The current version is referring to Chen Yaoye for those accomplishments.

maybe I misread then...that would make more sense, wouldn't it.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #74 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:09 pm 
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xed_over wrote:
maybe I misread then...that would make more sense, wouldn't it.


To be fair, it sounds a little weird to me that they started off by saying "The 27-year-old Chen’s accomplishments as a pro include defeating Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p, the top current player, for the 2016 Bailing Cup.." and then casually mentioning at the end "as well as winning 17 other national and continental titles."

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #75 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Ryan Li rating shoot from 2998 to 3101
Chen Yaoye though, decrease very little, from 3523 to 3511 so it's not the end of the world for him, just the end of the tournament.
In Fox the most watched room is Park Jungwhan vs. Zhou Ruiyang, followed by DeepZenGo.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #76 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:08 am 
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Quote:
To be fair, it sounds a little weird to me that they started off by saying "The 27-year-old Chen’s accomplishments as a pro include defeating Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p, the top current player, for the 2016 Bailing Cup.." and then casually mentioning at the end "as well as winning 17 other national and continental titles."


Perhaps they want to address non-Go fans who only heard about Ke Jie and Lee Sedol via the match against Alpha Go?

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #77 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:54 am 
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kimidori wrote:
Quote:
To be fair, it sounds a little weird to me that they started off by saying "The 27-year-old Chen’s accomplishments as a pro include defeating Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p, the top current player, for the 2016 Bailing Cup.." and then casually mentioning at the end "as well as winning 17 other national and continental titles."

Perhaps they want to address non-Go fans who only heard about Ke Jie and Lee Sedol via the match against Alpha Go?

Seems plausible to me, though I think they should have stuck in "and the Chinese Tianyuan title a record 8 times in a row".

P.S. Chen Yaoye has a fond place in my heart as he played a promotion game (for the Go-n-Games China trip I subsequently went on) on KGS many years ago against a high dan and in the kibitz I (then a ddk) asked if some other sequence would have been better for black and some dan player said no, my idea was bad, and then in the review Chen said my suggestion would have been better :D .


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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #78 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:14 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
P.S. Chen Yaoye has a fond place in my heart
I do like these Chinese guys, especially Zhou Ruiyang since the latest AlphaGo event. They seem to be pretty cool and laid-back - not blasé at all - as shown in the "famous" facepalm-picture.

P.S. And Ke Jie didn't seem arrogant either.

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #79 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:08 am 
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Some photos from round of 32

Wang Haoyang 6p half point win over DeepZenGo
Image
Image
Image
Image
Ryan Li 1p 2 1/2 point win over Chen Yaoye 9p
Image

Follow this link on Sina Sports you can view slide show of final 16 players drawing next round's match up
http://slide.sports.sina.com.cn/go/slid ... 3.html#p=1

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 Post subject: Re: Final Stage of 3rd MLily Cup Begins on June 19th
Post #80 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:13 am 
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pookpooi wrote:
Ryan Li rating shoot from 2998 to 3101
Chen Yaoye though, decrease very little, from 3523 to 3511 so it's not the end of the world for him, just the end of the tournament.


Pretty sure that Chen Yaoye doesn't care that much about his 'goratings.org' rating. He probably doesn't even know about the site.

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