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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #61 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:43 am 
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for pro players there is no difference losing by 100 or 0.5,a loss is a loss.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #62 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:20 am 
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baduk wrote:
for pro players there is no difference losing by 100 or 0.5,a loss is a loss.

Are you saying that every pro in the world will have an identical emotional reaction to losing a game by 0.5 to losing a game by 100?

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #63 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:17 pm 
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of course my statement was a little bit exaggerated and every human is different, but my point is the margin doesnt tell much if the game was a close fight or not (0.5 maybe,but 1.5 is already quite comfortable for most pros)
In general pros are considering theire mistakes and you have to look at the game to really know if it was interesting or not .Also pros know the result many moves in advance,so no matter how close it is they cannot really do much in the endgame (at pros level of course)so it doesnt matter if they win or lose by 100 or 0.5 Point,"defeat is still a defeat"(since they couldnt change the result anyway) "if you dont look at the story of the game you cant really judhe if it was interesting or not.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #64 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:14 pm 
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As has been stated, between pros, 1.5 points in the endgame comfortable. What is missing here is CONTEXT. Assume there is a game between A and B where B has this huge dragon not yet alive. B can make a move that ensures life for the dragon BUT then A with sente will win the end game by 1.5 points, or in the exact example, 0.5 points. Or B can make an end game move to go ahead IF the dragon does not die.

B will choose the latter, and will NOT feel worse because ending up losing the game "by a hundred points" (by resignation). It was the ONLY chance.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #65 Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Mr.Kin's page has wrong pairings. I guess I should come to this forum first from now on.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #66 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:03 am 
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Some more surprise results:
Gu Zihao beat Park Junghwan ------ Gu found some magic aji inside Park's territory in the endgame, I didn't count yet if it was a blunder or if Park lost with solid defence. Gu's one of these seemingly endless supply of super strong young Chinese players and has beaten plenty of top players before but I think this might be his biggest win on a big stage so far. He lost to Park in the (double elimination) preliminaries but won his last 5 games in the Chinese league against impressive opponents: Ke Jie, Shi Yue, Chen Yaoye, Shin Jinseo, Park Yeonghun. Will he still be on good form for the semi finals in November?
Tang Weixing beat Shin Jinseo ----- ) It's barely worth mentioning AlphaGo 3-3s. Shin lost a big group in ko, killed another in exchange but seems like Tang picked up enough points in endgame hassling weakish groups (including the wall from the 3-3 invasion).
Tong Mengcheng beat An Sungjoon
An Kukhyun beat Tuo Jiaxi ----- good win for lower rated An, now sole carrier of Korean hopes.

Tang is the only semi finalist who is 9 Dan or has previously won an international title.

So we have:
- Gu Zihao 5p, China, age 19, goratings #10 3506, Taeil #11 9708
- Tang Weixing 9p, China, age 24, goratings #15 3491, Taeil #14 9695
- Tong Mengcheng 6p, China, age 21, goratings #34 3438, Taeil #35 9588
- An Kukhyun 8p, Korea, age 25, goratings #45 3407, Taeil #52 9484

If Gu can maintain his impressive form I think he's favourite, or will Tang's experience and habit of doing well in international tournaments (and not domestic) win out? Or will Tong/An shine?

Semi-finals, 6th-8th November:
An Kukhyun vs Tang Weixing
Gu Zihao vs Tong Mengcheng


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #67 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:25 am 
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Just when people said Korean pros are doing good....

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #68 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:58 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Some more surprise results:
Gu Zihao beat Park Junghwan ------ Gu found some magic aji inside Park's territory in the endgame, I didn't count yet if it was a blunder or if Park lost with solid defence. Gu's one of these seemingly endless supply of super strong young Chinese players and has beaten plenty of top players before but I think this might be his biggest win on a big stage so far. He lost to Park in the (double elimination) preliminaries but won his last 5 games in the Chinese league against impressive opponents: Ke Jie, Shi Yue, Chen Yaoye, Shin Jinseo, Park Yeonghun. Will he still be on good form for the semi finals in November?
Tang Weixing beat Shin Jinseo ----- ) It's barely worth mentioning AlphaGo 3-3s. Shin lost a big group in ko, killed another in exchange but seems like Tang picked up enough points in endgame hassling weakish groups (including the wall from the 3-3 invasion).
Tong Mengcheng beat An Sungjoon
An Kukhyun beat Tuo Jiaxi ----- good win for lower rated An, now sole carrier of Korean hopes.

Tang is the only semi finalist who is 9 Dan or has previously won an international title.

So we have:
- Gu Zihao 5p, China, age 19, goratings #10 3506, Taeil #11 9708
- Tang Weixing 9p, China, age 24, goratings #15 3491, Taeil #14 9695
- Tong Mengcheng 6p, China, age 21, goratings #34 3438, Taeil #35 9588
- An Kukhyun 8p, Korea, age 25, goratings #45 3407, Taeil #52 9484

If Gu can maintain his impressive form I think he's favourite, or will Tang's experience and habit of doing well in international tournaments (and not domestic) win out? Or will Tong/An shine?

Semi-finals, 6th-8th November:
An Kukhyun vs Tang Weixing
Gu Zihao vs Tong Mengcheng


I'm surprised Iyama didn't make it to the quarter finals. All the players who made it are all ranked quite a few places below Iyama by Goratings.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #69 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:50 am 
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TheCannyOnion wrote:
I'm surprised Iyama didn't make it to the quarter finals. All the players who made it are all ranked quite a few places below Iyama by Goratings.

But you aren't surprised that the undisputed (human) world #1, Ke Jie, didn't make it to the quarter finals either? Or that #2 Park Junghwan didn't make the semis (indeed none of goratings #1, #2, #3, #4 made it)? Or that none of the 11 goratings top 20 (at the time) who played in them made it through the prelims? Why pick out Iyama in particular? IMO this tournament has shown there's quite a depth (say 50 of them) of top pros (particularly young Chinese), any one of whom could, on a good day, beat another.


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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #70 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:04 am 
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handa711 wrote:
Mr.Kin's page has wrong pairings. I guess I should come to this forum first from now on.


I think he is doing the best he could to supply some useful information. The paring information is not determined before the tournament. Poor Mr Kin has to (I suppose) manually update his tables after each round, which is not as straight-forward as it might appear,

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #71 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:53 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
But you aren't surprised that the undisputed (human) world #1, Ke Jie, didn't make it to the quarter finals either?


Not undisputed anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #72 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:07 am 
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Iyama Yuta lost to Shin, a player ranked higher than him, so it's much less of a surprise than say Ke Jie and Park Junghwan.

I'd say Tang is now the favorite because of his experience in international tournaments, and he tends to play better against Korean players.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #73 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:39 am 
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alphaville wrote:
Not undisputed anymore.

I may failed to get a joke for a second time of today in lifein19x19, but why do you say 'not anymore'?
Are there any rank besides goratings, mamumamu, Dr. Park Taeil, and Chinese professional ranking that point out that Ke Jie is not number one?

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #74 Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:01 am 
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Ke Jie has come back down to the pack a bit after the long winning streak, but he is definitely still No. 1. I found him to remain quite consistent against other top players, but can lose to lesser players here and there, while Park is sort of the opposite, less likely to suffer an upset but also not beating top pros at an outrageous rate.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #75 Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Semifinals are happening right now. Again here are the matchups:

Tang Weixing (b) vs. Ahn Kukhyun (w)
Gu Zihao (b) vs Tong Mengcheng (w)

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #76 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:07 am 
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Gu Zihao beat Tong Mengcheng by resign.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #77 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:58 am 
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Ahn beat Tang by resign (these semifinals are best of 3, 2nd game tomorrow). Looking good for my tip of Gu... However, if Tang does make it he beat Gu twice recently (Chinese league last week) although in lifetime record Gu leads 5-3 (strangely Gu won their first 5 games despite him being 5 years younger so you'd expect him to improve and do better more recently).

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #78 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:28 pm 
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So in this tournament, Ahn has beaten Chen Yaoye (twice), Tuo Jiaxi, and the first game against Tang; pretty good stuff. Certainly, Gu Zihao isn't too shabby himself, having gone through a trio of Korean elites in Lee Donghoon, Park Yeonghun, and Park Junghwan.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #79 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:49 pm 
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Gu lost his second game. I wasn't a fan of his strategy: he started an early fight and made lots of small groups with second line moves whilst Tong played a thick game. Gu resigned when his last desperation invasion got killed with a nice shape attack involving broken shapes.

Tang won, so both semi finals go to deciding third game.

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 Post subject: Re: 2017 22nd Samsung Cup
Post #80 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:03 am 
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Tang and Gu won so through to final. Gu aggressively went for a kill and it ended up as a semeai between his bent four in the corner and a no eyed group with several liberties. Tong didn't have big threats though for the corner ko so got 4 extra moves to grow his moyo whilst Gu took the liberties. Gu then nicely managed to cut and capture some of the moyo boundary during his reduction and had enough to win.

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