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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #21 Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:46 am 
Judan

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The peep in response to the one point jump is the standard joseki for bots these days if not tenuki (it wasn't unheard of from humans before but was pretty rare / special case move). AlphaGo Master played it a few times and Leela Zero and Elf like it too. Connect is the simplest response (and often good/best) and then if black slides white's 3-3 is unsatisfactory because, had black slid before peep, then the connection in response to peep would be slack (as 3-3 already defends the push and cut). So after slide probably black will 3-3 later and then you wonder how safe the white stick is and if white tenukis again then probably black will pincer and attack it (there are downsides to the peep too, for example after black's 3-3 the b15 slide is less good as white can attach and black's stand is only a single peep not double peep as white already connected from outside peep). The white push up is trying not to get pushed around and makes it less easy for black to view the peep as a light kikashi (if he just sacrifices it then white grew the left side), and if slide then white can not feel so sad to 3-3. But it leaves cutting weaknesses, which black exploits with the 3-3 invasion and a fighting joseki erupts. Ke Jie also played the push up recently so it seems the top pros in China are exploring this move.


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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #22 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:33 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
The peep in response to the one point jump is the standard joseki for bots these days if not tenuki (it wasn't unheard of from humans before but was pretty rare / special case move). AlphaGo Master played it a few times and Leela Zero and Elf like it too. Connect is the simplest response (and often good/best) and then if black slides white's 3-3 is unsatisfactory because, had black slid before peep, then the connection in response to peep would be slack (as 3-3 already defends the push and cut). So after slide probably black will 3-3 later and then you wonder how safe the white stick is and if white tenukis again then probably black will pincer and attack it (there are downsides to the peep too, for example after black's 3-3 the b15 slide is less good as white can attach and black's stand is only a single peep not double peep as white already connected from outside peep). The white push up is trying not to get pushed around and makes it less easy for black to view the peep as a light kikashi (if he just sacrifices it then white grew the left side), and if slide then white can not feel so sad to 3-3. But it leaves cutting weaknesses, which black exploits with the 3-3 invasion and a fighting joseki erupts. Ke Jie also played the push up recently so it seems the top pros in China are exploring this move.


Interesting. It seems to be another case in which AI is not afraid to settle positions early in the game whereas human pros where timid to do so. I remember one professional saying that it was, in a way, a masterful way to play.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #23 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:28 am 
Tengen

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It seems to me that it avoids settling, because white does not want to play the safe 3-3.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #24 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:57 am 
Judan

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Is "settle" being used with multiple meanings? I would say this peep "cashes the aji" (a play on "aji keshi") or "settles the shape" (somewhat) in that black has many ways to play against the shape of the one point jump (e.g. attaching to either stone, peeping either side, 3-3 invade, tenuki etc) and strong humans tend to be averse to committing to one option which may be wrong (playing aji keshi) so if it's not clear what the best way to play is they have a tendency to play nothing. But if black peeps and white connects is that a soft answer, a good exchange for black, a kikashi? Maybe later white would play a stronger resistance (or tenuki if you play it say as a ladder maker when there is some big ladder going on). Or was it aji keshi, ruining other choices? It's a really hard decision, but in general bots do seem to lean more towards the former whilst humans towards the later (not that humans are homogenous, some might like to make early exchanges too). hyperpape seems to mean "settle the group" as in make the groups safe by securing eyespace (such as with the 3-3 point), so with these short josekis resulting in not yet settled shapes that didn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #25 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:23 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Although Park lost this one by half a point, I thought this game from today in the Chinese league was excellent. His opponent was Mi Yuting who is on fine form and looks set to overtake Ke Jie to get the #2 spot on goratings.


Look like Mi has to wait a bit longer as he lost to Kim Jiseok, while KJ beat Tan Xiao in the latest round. Still, having 3 players with 3,600+ Elo rating (and 2 more on the cusp of joining them) is quite exciting. Really hoping they get to meet each other (Park/Ke/Mi/Lian/Shin) in one of the best-of-5 finals at some point.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #26 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:02 am 
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Thanks Uberdude, I wasn't aware of the two senses that "settling" can have here, and was thinking of settled groups.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #27 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Suddenly Park Junghwan has lost three in a row, and his lead over Mi Yuting at GoRatings is down to 7 points. In fact, there are only 14 points separating the top 4 players. Should be exciting to see who will end the year at No. 1. Too bad Mi isn't getting the same opportunities as the other 3 in international tournaments.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #28 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:08 am 
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With Park’s latest loss (to Xie Erhao again) in Chinese A League and Mi Yuting’s win, we may just have a new No. 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #29 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 am 
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Yeah, Mi Yuting is doing really well recently and his games are great to replay, such a shame he wasn't selected for several big international tournaments recently. Looking at the last 6 months he has 23 wins and 5 losses (86%) and this is not beating up lower grade pros but stuffed full of top players like Ke Jie, Park Junghwan, Shi Yue, Gu Zihao, Chen Yaoye etc. For comparison the others in goratings top 4: Ke Jie has 27 wins, 15 losses (64%), Park Junghwan has 27 wins, 12 losses (68%) and busy Shin Jinseo has 47 wins (including 18 win streak, recently ended by Park), 12 losses (80%). And for comparison Shi Yue who has been maintaining his rating and position around #10 with some good, some bad results has 25 wins, 17 losses (59%). And poor old Lee Sedol who has dropped down to goratings #36 since being #5 back in March 2016 for the AlphaGo match has 16 wins, 26 losses (38%).

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #30 Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:21 am 
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Actually, Park Junghwan dropped to No 3 in GoRatings. He also fell below Shin Jinseo by a tiny margin of 0.23 point.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #31 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:47 am 
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Park reaches Chunlan final and this will be the second Park vs Park world champsionship :D

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #32 Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:23 am 
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The last one being MLily cup final last year, which Park Junghwan won 3-0. There have been a few instances of 2 Koreans in the final of a Chinese event and 2 Chinese in the final of Korean events recently. Park Yeonghun has done very well to get this far again, at 33 years old it's nice to see players from his generation still doing well.

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #33 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:15 am 
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Park won the last game in the special event held by CCTV against Ke Jie. Replaying quickly the game with Elf looks like Park had several times a good position in the middle game and then Ke Jie came back to take the lead until small yose. Huge blunder on move 226 marked the final reversal. It was very funny that move 226 was one of the immediate suggestions made also by Elf...


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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #34 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:33 pm 
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Lucian wrote:
Park reaches Chunlan final and this will be the second Park vs Park world champsionship :D

Park vs. Park is a park-on-park crime, which is another name for double-parking, which is illegal everywhere. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Park Junghwan is The Best
Post #35 Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:02 pm 
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Park reclaimed #1 at GoRatings after the latest set of results at MLily cup, but No. 1 could switch hand again in a few days as he and Ke Jie will play each other in the round of 16.

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