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 Post subject: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #1 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:43 am 
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I've wondered for quite a while on what bot's may think of this game.

I put the commentary in below, from which it might be clear why I'm curious (black leads by a lot early on):


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #2 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 am 
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According to LZ, black is not ahead by "a lot". At move 91, black winrate is only 63%. After the sucessful invasion on the left side, white is ahead


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #3 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:42 am 
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i read in the "the style of Lee Sedol" book, that it is typical for his games/style... being behind in the opening/beginning and than winning/catching up anyway by initiating complex middle game fighting

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #4 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:44 am 
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thanks for sharing!, all those ko fights so early make me nervous :-|
lee is tenacious, not giving up

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #5 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:47 am 
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I could do a LZ review like forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15924 if people are interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #6 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:05 am 
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Yamashita's view on the game might be quite interesting.

It looks like one of those terrible setbacks that take you about a month to recover from and regain your self-confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm 
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alot from pros perspective is a difference of 5-7 points:)

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:47 am 
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nasdaq wrote:
thanks for sharing!, all those ko fights so early make me nervous :-|
lee is tenacious, not giving up


Your welcome— commentary from An Youngill 8p, who was prolific with 105 reviews. It's a good thing I collected them all before the site went down.

eyecatcher wrote:
i read in the "the style of Lee Sedol" book, that it is typical for his games/style... being behind in the opening/beginning and than winning/catching up anyway by initiating complex middle game fighting


Yes, one might guess that studying his games simply for his spirit might do wonders alone.

Uberdude wrote:
I could do a LZ review like forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15924 if people are interested.


Yes please.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #9 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:34 pm 
Judan

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The beginnings of an in-depth LZ review plus joseki diversions (2+ hours on the first 15 moves!):



Update: done to move 48.


Attachments:
Lee Yamashita LZ review.sgf [27.95 KiB]
Downloaded 383 times

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #10 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:39 am 
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Thanks! This is brilliant :D .

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #11 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:12 pm 
Judan

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Here's LZ 40 block's winrate graph for the game on 10k playouts (black win at top).
Attachment:
Lee Yamashita winrate annotated.PNG
Lee Yamashita winrate annotated.PNG [ 475.38 KiB | Viewed 2913 times ]

Also I updated the sgf with commentary to move 48.

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #12 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Would you be willing to run the same analysis with the current 20-block to compare the win-rate graphs?

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 Post subject: Re: Lee Sedol 9p-Yamashita Keigo 9p
Post #13 Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:01 am 
Judan

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Sure, here's LZ #162 (20 blocks) on 10k playouts. I suppose I should have used GRP to export the numbers so I can graph them together :-? . Shapes are pretty similar, I think most significant difference is when Yamashita makes big mistake in middlegame and white's winning and then Lee makes smaller mistake back 40b thinks white is still winning plenty whereas 20b thinks it bounced back to a black win for some moves.

Attachment:
Lee Yamashita LZ162 winrate.PNG
Lee Yamashita LZ162 winrate.PNG [ 469.71 KiB | Viewed 2865 times ]


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