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Who will win?
EGF pros 69%  69%  [ 40 ]
AGA pros 22%  22%  [ 13 ]
Don't know 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #681 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 1:30 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Also, the facebook post has a-d not a-c


Facebook a, c, d have become a, b, c on the website, while facebook b is in the "requirements" paragraph of the website.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #682 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:18 am 
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OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers. On KGS "0:45 (5)" means you have 45 seconds left and 5 byo-yomi periods remaining, wait a minute and it'll say "0:45 (4)", another minute to "0:45 (3)", then "0:45 (2)", then "0:45 SD", then you lose 45 seconds later if you didn't play in time, or it goes back up to 1:00 SD if you play in time. On OGS the equivalent clock display is "0:45 + 5 x 60s", then "0:45 + 4 x 60s", then "0:45 + 3 x 60s", then "0:45 + 2 x 60s", then "0:45 + 1 x 60s" then 45 seconds later you lose. My initial understanding of that final display is that I have 45 seconds and one more 60 seconds period remaining after that if I take more than 45 seconds (because I read it like maths: 45 + 1 x 60 = 45 + (1x60) = 105 total time remaining, it's the plus sign that's misleading), but you don't, The OGS display is in some ways more logical because the KGS one doesn't distinguish between 45 seconds left of absolute time and 45 seconds left with 1 renewable byo-yomi period, but it's quite a dangerous gotcha that I hope both players are aware of. Is it the player's responsibility or the organisers to ensure this is understood?

P.S. I like Fox's display, in final byo-yomi it says "Byo-yomi 1x, 0:45" and then elsewhere on the screen has the game settings "6.5 komi, 1 hour, 5 x 1 min".

P.P.S I'm wondering should I send Ali a message about this, or does that actually hurt his winning chances: in the event he times out because he is misled by the confusing clock he could no longer claim ignorance and, echoing the Mateusz ruling, that means he accepts the bad conditions. But if Eric loses on time because of a confusing clock he can claim he didn't know about the bad user interface and therefore should get a rematch. So if I want Ali to win I should tell Eric, ignorance is bliss!

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #683 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:27 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers. On KGS "0:45 (5)" means you have 45 seconds left and 5 byo-yomi periods remaining, wait a minute and it'll say "0:45 (4)", another minute to "0:45 (3)", then "0:45 (2)", then "0:45 SD", then you lose 45 seconds later if you didn't play in time, or it goes back up to 1:00 SD if you play in time. On OGS the equivalent clock display is "0:45 + 5 x 60s", then "0:45 + 4 x 60s", then "0:45 + 3 x 60s", then "0:45 + 2 x 60s", then "0:45 + 1 x 60s" then 45 seconds later you lose. My initial understanding of that final display is that I have 45 seconds and one more 60 seconds period remaining after that if I take more than 45 seconds (because I read it like maths: 45 + 1 x 60 = 45 + (1x60) = 105 total time remaining, it's the plus sign that's misleading), but you don't, The OGS display is in some ways more logical because the KGS one doesn't distinguish between 45 seconds left of absolute time and 45 seconds left with 1 renewable byo-yomi period, but it's quite a dangerous gotcha that I hope both players are aware of. Is it the player's responsibility or the organisers to ensure this is understood?


A competent organizer would make this known to the players.

Quote:
P.P.S I'm wondering should I send Ali a message about this,


I would send a message to the organizers or the referee. We do not want another incident, which might sink this tournament.

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Last edited by Bill Spight on Fri May 31, 2019 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #684 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:57 am 
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Bit of an upset in the Amsterdam tournament running at the moment.

Ali Jabarin lost to Stephen Hu, 5 dan, in the second round.


Lets hope it doesnt affect his confidence for sunday :)

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #685 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:25 am 
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Aram wrote:
Bit of an upset in the Amsterdam tournament running at the moment.

Ali Jabarin lost to Stephen Hu, 5 dan, in the second round.

Stephen puts on such a good show of being slightly befuddled during his broadcasts that I forget he is actually a pretty good player. :)


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #686 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:29 am 
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Schedule of Amsterdam tournament:

Quote:
Sunday, June 2
09:30 – 13:00 Round 6
14:00 – 17:30 Round 7 --- Live commentary of the final by Rob van Zeijst 7d
17:45 – 18:15 Prize-giving ceremony


If Ali is playing in those 2 rounds he's going to be tired and not in a good condition to play another gruelling game at 8pm :sad:

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #687 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:32 am 
Gosei

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Uberdude wrote:
OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers.

I appreciate your description but I'm still confused! What is difference in display between "45 seconds left of main time, followed by 5 byo-yomi periods" and "main time has expired and there are 45 seconds left in your first byo-yomi period" (out of 5)?

I agree that "0:45 + 1 x 60s" really should mean that you have one period in reserve after using this one up.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #688 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:33 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Schedule of Amsterdam tournament:

Quote:
Sunday, June 2
09:30 – 13:00 Round 6
14:00 – 17:30 Round 7 --- Live commentary of the final by Rob van Zeijst 7d
17:45 – 18:15 Prize-giving ceremony


If Ali is playing in those 2 rounds he's going to be tired and not in a good condition to play another gruelling game at 8pm :sad:


Indeed.. imagine the transatlantic match ending at around midnight for Ali, and him having played 3 rounds during the day...

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #689 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:36 am 
Judan

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dfan wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers.

I appreciate your description but I'm still confused! What is difference in display between "45 seconds left of main time, followed by 5 byo-yomi periods" and "main time has expired and there are 45 seconds left in your first byo-yomi period" (out of 5)?

There is none, you cannot distinguish these 2 situations!

P.S. I've posted a reply to the official facebook post about the confusing clock and other concerns.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #690 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:37 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
dfan wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers.

I appreciate your description but I'm still confused! What is difference in display between "45 seconds left of main time, followed by 5 byo-yomi periods" and "main time has expired and there are 45 seconds left in your first byo-yomi period" (out of 5)?

There is none, you cannot distinguish these 2 situations!

:shock:

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #691 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:23 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
P.P.S I'm wondering should I send Ali a message about this, or does that actually hurt his winning chances: in the event he times out because he is misled by the confusing clock he could no longer claim ignorance and, echoing the Mateusz ruling, that means he accepts the bad conditions. But if Eric loses on time because of a confusing clock he can claim he didn't know about the bad user interface and therefore should get a rematch. So if I want Ali to win I should tell Eric, ignorance is bliss!


It'd be more clear to say, if you message Ali about this, and Ali is still confused about the clock, he should bring it up to the organizers, and they should work out a resolution to resolve the confusion. Why would Ali proceed with the game in a state of confusion, without trying to resolve it?

If I tell you to watch out before crossing the road, because a bus is coming, why not try to do something to avoid the bus?

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #692 Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:54 am 
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Kirby wrote:
If I tell you to watch out before crossing the road, because a bus is coming, why not try to do something to avoid the bus?


OC, if your grandmother is handy, . . . ;)

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #693 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:21 am 
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Ali Jabarin (W) vs. Eric Lui (B)

https://online-go.com/game/18114039

https://www.twitch.tv/usgoweb

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #694 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:59 am 
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Bonobo wrote:
Ali Jabarin (W) vs. Eric Lui (B)

https://online-go.com/game/18114039...

Lui gave up a huge corner for a wall.

EDIT...and won.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #695 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:39 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #696 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:53 pm 
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I see Eric won.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #697 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:11 pm 
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With what happened in a certain earlier game, i find it rather odd and amusing that some people on OGS and Twitch are suggesting that Ali should resign and not play to the end...

You know.. if there is a large 10-ish point difference, how could the game result ever change?

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #698 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:18 pm 
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Are the variations from the live commentary being officially recorded somewhere? I missed much of the beginning part of the commentary.

I know they may eventually make the video commentary available on youtube, like they did for the first 3 games: https://www.youtube.com/user/USGOWeb but that seems to be done with a great delay (game 4 is not available there yet).

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #699 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Well, I guess it shouldn't be surprising that some hypocritical commenters insisted that Lui should have resigned when significantly behind during overtime in game 4 but didn't then say that Jabarin should resign when more than 20 points behind in game 5. Or maybe Jabarin was hoping that Lui might lose due to running out of time; it was completely within his right to play to the end. Anyhow, it's good to have the game played without any foolishness. We can look forward to the next game.

I remember that decades ago the great Japanese champion Sakata played a tournament game all the way through the counting at the end to lose by more than 10 points. No one suggested that Sakata should have resigned earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #700 Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:18 pm 
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Congrats to Eric Lui!

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