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Who will win?
EGF pros 69%  69%  [ 40 ]
AGA pros 22%  22%  [ 13 ]
Don't know 9%  9%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #721 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:53 am 
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Make it stop.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #722 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:38 am 
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Yes please Kirby, stop.
You complain that it restarts while it is you who insist on the subject.
And you continue to invent false remarks to participants in the conversation, which inevitably provokes stormy responses to this lack of respect
Example: "If objecting to a referee's decision is unsporting"
Nobody said that.
Never on this topic.
You invent.

What he say: "his objection to the referee's first decision", because it was against the spirit of the game (the spirit of the game being that the result should be decided on the board, not by the internet connection).
It is obvious, and Uberdude explaining it saying if Eric Lui choosed"i contest the decision, i surrend" this will be sportmanlike.

Uberdude messages are very clear(more than mine), if you are not able to understand them, i think it means you are too invested emotionally.
So please, stop write,stay calm, think a bit, try to understand messages before answer, and you will see we can move on.



Thanks a lot,

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #723 Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:42 am 
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Fenring wrote:
Yes please Kirby, stop.


The point of stopping the argument was not fingerpointing at anyone for continuing their side of the argument. Stopping means stopping all-together.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #724 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:46 pm 
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I just read a story from the recently concluded WAGC that shows another way to deal with situations when one player runs out of time: https://www.intergofed.org/igf-news-fee ... y-two.html

Basically: both players took turns to having their flag fall down, but they (and the referee) agreed to continue playing.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #725 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Knotwilg wrote:
Fenring wrote:
Yes please Kirby, stop.


The point of stopping the argument was not fingerpointing at anyone for continuing their side of the argument. Stopping means stopping all-together.


I'm down with "stopping" (I guess that means to discontinue discussion about game 4). While the topic is entertaining to me, I think we've pretty much beat the topic to death, and people have come to think what they'll continue to think about the matter, probably.

Besides, I've gotta believe that I should give credence to any post written in big pink letters.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #726 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:43 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Besides, I've gotta believe that I should give credence to any post written in big pink letters.


Ah, but only if it has polka dots!

Take care.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #727 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:46 pm 
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This thread should be locked.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #728 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:05 am 
Judan

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I don't see why it should be locked. It didn't break forum rules. Javaness made a popular non-admin request to stop rehashing the game 4 issue which has been heeded. People might want to discuss the Ali vs Eric game, though it seems not such a popular topic.

The next game is this Sunday: Eric Lui vs Pavol Lisy. They recently played at the IMSA event and Pavol won, though I didn't see a game record.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #729 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:48 am 
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TheCannyOnion wrote:
This thread should be locked.
IMO people's freedom should only be restricted with very good reasons. Even with very good reasons, it probably shouldn't.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #730 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:33 am 
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Is the next game today? I can't see the confirmation on facebook.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #731 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:46 am 
Oza
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TRANSATLANTIC PROFESSIONAL GO TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP
Game #6
TODAY, Sunday, June 9, 20:00 CEST (14:00 EDT)
Pavol Lisy 2p (EGF) vs. Eric Lui 1p (AGA)

Watch live on twitch: twitch.tv/usgoweb

https://transatlanticgo.org/

<edit>
BTW, could anybody point me to some post where the “L19 titles” are explained? Like “Dies in Gote”, or, what I now have: “Oza” … (I’m sure I’m actually “Loses won Game” or something :D )
</edit>

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #732 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:16 am 
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@Bonobo: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=226469#p226469


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #733 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:14 am 
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The game on OGS: https://online-go.com/game/18205527

P.S. Eric Lui won by 1.5 point.


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #734 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:23 pm 
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This game (like B 217 & 219) is a good reminder not to take the game too seriously.

Even LZ goes weird reviewing them, elf seems more consistent.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #735 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:28 pm 
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Thanks for both, @jlt, I totally forgot to add the game link.

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #736 Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:52 pm 
Judan

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The game, lots of ups and downs, but Eric (white) won because he made the penultimate big mistake.



The story according to LZ 226 on 3300 playouts.
Attachment:
Transatlantic 6 lz226 graph.PNG
Transatlantic 6 lz226 graph.PNG [ 219.5 KiB | Viewed 810 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #737 Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:44 am 
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Around the mentioned moves B - with an overwhelming lead - connects several scattered stones and offers them up in bulk in an avoidable ko. This drops his chances from 97% to below 30% (which LZ interestingly only sees when all moves are played out, in its search it evaluates individual moves >90% - even the worst move creating the ko, though oc it prefers the unconditional connection).

Interestingly LZ also confirms my suspicion: the whole sequence is worse than passing at 215 (which in itself was fine). Passing retains 35% from 97% (W can only take smaller scales).

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #738 Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:42 am 
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I want to try analysis of the game with more playouts. I find in my own games that analysis on the order of 25-50k playouts finds very different sequences due to it's more accurate reading. For example, I've noticed it can calculate long capturing races that are missed with lower playout counts. I think it also substantially improved ladder reading in most instances, which can alter the variations significantly.

Edit: I ran the first 250 moves through GoReviewPartner at 25,600 playouts per move with LZ#226. Results are similar. I am attaching the rsgf file, which may be opened with the software to see the top variations that LeelaZero recorded.

The screenshot shows the value network winrate in grey with black's winrate delta in red. The red basically shows how high black's winrate would have been, had they chosen LZ's optimal move.

Attachment:
black delta sml.JPG
black delta sml.JPG [ 56.84 KiB | Viewed 655 times ]


Attachments:
transatlantic.zip [116.29 KiB]
Downloaded 3 times
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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #739 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:56 am 
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Artem Kachanovskyi vs. Eric Lui:

https://online-go.com/game/18494065
https://www.twitch.tv/usgoweb

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 Post subject: Re: EGF vs AGA pros win-and-continue match
Post #740 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:56 pm 
Judan

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Artem won by resign, a pretty close game throughout with some to and fros in the endgame but then Artem just lived in Eric's corner. So that's 4-3 to EGF, but Artem is busy next weekend so Ilya will play instead vs Ryan Li, so if Ilya wins Europe wins the event, if Ryan wins he plays Artem the week after.

Attachment:
artem vs eric winrate lz229.PNG
artem vs eric winrate lz229.PNG [ 205.81 KiB | Viewed 375 times ]


Attachments:
artem vs eric.sgf [32.14 KiB]
Downloaded 396 times

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