Lee Sedol 9p retires

Bill Spight · **#21**

MikeKyle wrote:

I've felt convinced before that even Lee Sedol does not understand the moves of Lee Sedol.

Uberdude · **#22**

On the topic of Lee's memorable games, there was this miraculous comeback some years ago against Kong Jie (who was probably world #2 then) following a woopsy death with scant compensation leaving him far behind. But he keeps on fighting and complicating the game and turns it around.

And then this one from the same time just after his 2009-10 hiatus, I call it the 2-space high pincer workshop. Lee is black vs Chang Hao in the BC card cup final.

sorin · **#23**

Kirby wrote:

Roughly translated:

This year feels really different. I started playing go when I was 6, and in 1995 I became a pro. It looks like this year is the last year that I'll be active as a competitor. On top of that, more and more, it seems that my matches with Ke Jie 9d haven't had any meaning.

Thanks for the translation!
What does the "it seems that my matches with Ke Jie 9d haven't had any meaning" mean exactly - do you think he is disappointed about losing to Ke Jie more often than winning, or is he talking about something else (such as, they don't meet in important matches anymore? or... does he dislike Ke Jie's AI-style nowadays :-)

)

sorin · **#24**

moha wrote:

macelee wrote:

Ke Jie's opening was like a ruthless robot (following Fine Art's suggestions pretty closely, including some strange-looking second-line moves)

He was rumoured to have personal access to Fine Art, wasn't he? I guess humans can learn to do many things efficiently, not just playing go but also predicting a certain player's moves.

Is FineArt's playing style different than LeelaZero? I don't think it makes a difference nowadays for a pro to have exclusive access to FineArt - since both FineArt and LeelaZero are stronger than top pros, so Go AI has been "democratized".

John Fairbairn · **#25**

Quote:

What does the "it seems that my matches with Ke Jie 9d haven't had any meaning" mean exactly - do you think he is disappointed about losing to Ke Jie more often than winning, or is he talking about something else (such as, they don't meet in important matches anymore? or... does he dislike Ke Jie's AI-style nowadays :-)

)

Sorin: The score between Yi Se-tol and Ke Jie is now 5-13 (5-14 if you count pair go), and for the past couple of years and more they have met usually only by courtesy of specially arranged exhibition games. Add to that the fact that Yi had just experienced his 36th birthday and Ke is only 22. Ke also rubbed salt in the wound (no doubt unintentionally) by telling the press he grew up studying Yi's games.

And all that is within the framework that Yi is an emotional rollercoaster kind of guy. Which is why he didn't actually say he has retired. He said he is planning to make this year his last but he hasn't quite decided whether it will then be a temporary or permanent retirement.

At heart, just a bad case of tempus fugit, I suspect. Been there, done that. Like quite a few on this forum. You're next, uberdude!

Kirby · **#26**

sorin wrote:

Kirby wrote:

Roughly translated:

This year feels really different. I started playing go when I was 6, and in 1995 I became a pro. It looks like this year is the last year that I'll be active as a competitor. On top of that, more and more, it seems that my matches with Ke Jie 9d haven't had any meaning.

Thanks for the translation!
What does the "it seems that my matches with Ke Jie 9d haven't had any meaning" mean exactly - do you think he is disappointed about losing to Ke Jie more often than winning, or is he talking about something else (such as, they don't meet in important matches anymore? or... does he dislike Ke Jie's AI-style nowadays :-)

)

It is difficult for me to say more from the single quote. I can make my own interpretation, but I'd be making some assumptions. I agree with John that Lee Sedol is somewhat temperamental (that's my opinion, not an objective fact) - and it's true that he didn't actually say that he was retired, just that it looks like this will be his last year.

In any case, I think it's somewhat safe to say from the quote that Lee Sedol isn't satisfied with his recent matches against Ke Jie. To say more, I'd be extrapolating.

Kirby · **#27**

Another article from a couple of days ago (http://m.tygem.com/news/news_view.html? ... &seq=32539) has another quote:

Quote:

은퇴를 암시하는 것이냐는 질문에는 “아직 완벽히 정한 것은 아니지만 올해를 마지막으로 휴직이나 은퇴를 고려 중이다. 휴직은 어설픈 느낌이 있지만, 완전 은퇴를 하면 돌아오기 힘들 것이다. 은퇴를 하면 나중에 바둑을 못 두게 될 수 있기 때문에 여러 방면에서 고려 중이다.”라고 말했다.

And my quick translation:

Quote:

When asked whether he was going to seriously try hard to retire, he replied, "It's still not perfectly decided, but I'm considering whether to take a leave of absence or retire by the end of this year. Taking a leave of absense feels kind of lame, but if I comletely retire, it'll be difficult to return. If I retire, later on it'll get to be where I'm not able to play. Because of that, I'm still considering various angles."

So maybe he's still thinking things over a little bit. Not really sure.

jlt · **#28**

Remember that in 2013, Lee Sedol said he would retire within three years.

forum/viewtopic.php?p=133280#p133280

moha · **#29**

sorin wrote:

moha wrote:

He was rumoured to have personal access to Fine Art, wasn't he? I guess humans can learn to do many things efficiently, not just playing go but also predicting a certain player's moves.

Is FineArt's playing style different than LeelaZero? I don't think it makes a difference nowadays for a pro to have exclusive access to FineArt - since both FineArt and LeelaZero are stronger than top pros, so Go AI has been "democratized".

I think I disagree with this, for pros at least. There are significant strength differences between go bots, and especially as a study tool for a pro I think that half stone could matter. For playing styles I'd guess the differences are even larger.

I have no real idea about Fine Art (apart from its strength), but I think joseki preferences, evaluation balances, opinion on certain lines, even W advantage on an empty board are viewed differently. LZ and Elf also seem to differ, and I'd guess even LZ would differ from itself after a new run from scratch. Selfplay training can reinforce and amplify (initially random) tiny NN preferences. The extent of ladder understanding can also make a huge difference (not for misplaying a ladder move at the top, but for the accuracy of searches where ladders arise several moves deeper).

Uberdude · **#30**

https://sports.sina.cn/others/qipai/201 ... 142.d.html

Looks like he actually retired today.

Kirby · **#31**

Here's another article:
http://cyberoro.com/news/news_view.oro? ... num=526108

jlt · **#32**

So that's really really true this time? Any information about what he intends to do after retirement?

Kirby · **#33**

jlt wrote:

So that's really really true this time? Any information about what he intends to do after retirement?

When it's Lee Sedol, who knows whether it's "really really true"? But I think it's more likely now. IIRC, his wife and daughter are (were?) in Canada. Maybe he'll be able to spend more time with his family, now?

Actually, I don't know if they're still in Canada or not. But either way, I'd imagine he can spend more time with family after retirement.

sorin · **#34**

Uberdude wrote:

https://sports.sina.cn/others/qipai/2019-11-19/detail-iihnzahi1958142.d.html

Looks like he actually retired today.

Right, but for how long? :-)

Calvin Clark · **#35**

http://m.koreaherald.com/amp/view.php?ud=20191119000959

SoDesuNe · **#36**

A nice overview of Lee Sedol's career.

He's playing another AI in december (best of 3) and then would like to take a year off.

sorin · **#37**

SoDesuNe wrote:

A nice overview of Lee Sedol's career.

He's playing another AI in december (best of 3) and then would like to take a year off.

Lee Sedol will take 2 stones handicap against the AI, that will be very interesting to watch!

Lee Sedol 9p retires

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