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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #341 Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:39 pm 
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The little pamphlets that come with Go World have been featuring Nakamura Sumire. There are three and at least the last two were commented by Ichiriki. It's called something like "Sumire's move" and the idea is that throughout the game commentary there are positions where you can guess Sumire's move. It's more like "how well do you know Sumire" and not "choose the best move." I think something like this is mentioned in the beginning. I feel like it's kind of easy but it is also fun.

The 3rd pamphlet covered a long game with a lot of Kos back in June against Nakane Naoyuki (?) 9 dan. This was in the Judan section B preliminary rounds.
The Nihon Kiin has hosted the SGF here:

Ichiriki does provide commentary on the options but I can't try to repeat all that here.

Sorry for any mistakes in the diagrams. I did double check.

White: Nakamura | Black: Nakane.

:w1: Find Sumire's move from A-E. Marked is black's last move. It's backwards but I labeled the first 10 moves since they were interesting. The unlabeled moves came after.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . b . . c , . . d . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , e . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 6 . . . . , . . . . Y , X . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 7 8 O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:
C


==============================================================

:w2: Does Sumire play A or B? Marked is black's last move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:
b


==============================================================


:w3: Where does Sumire play? Marked is black's last move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . O , . . . . . X . Y . |
$$ | . O O X X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O O X . X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X O . . , . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . X X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:
b


==============================================================


:w4: Find Sumire's move. Marked is black's last move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . . X . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . O , . . X . . X X X O |
$$ | . O O X X X . X O . . . O O . O X O . |
$$ | . O . O O X . X O . . . . . O . O . O |
$$ | . . O . X . X O O . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X O . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . , . . X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X X X O O O . . . . Y . . O . . . |
$$ | O X O . . X X . . . . a O b . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:
b


==============================================================

:w5: Where does Sumire play? Marked are the last moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . . X . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . O , . . X . . X X X O |
$$ | . O O X X X . X O . a Y O O . O X O . |
$$ | . O . O O X . X O . Y Q . . O . O . O |
$$ | . . O . X . X O O . . b . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X O . O X . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . X O . X , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O . O O . O O . . |
$$ | . O . . . X . . X . X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O X X . X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X X X O O O O O . X X . X O . . . |
$$ | O X O . . X X X X . O X O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:
A


==============================================================

:w6: The Ko has already begun. Black played a threat and then took the Ko with the Marked stone. What ko threat does Sumire play? Ichiriki provided a hint below.

Hint:
A local ko threat


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . . X X |
$$ | . . X O . X . . O , . X X O . X X X O |
$$ | . O O X X X . X O . O X O O . O X O O |
$$ | . O . O O X . X O . X O X . O O O . O |
$$ | . . O . X . X O O . O O X X O . O O Y |
$$ | . . O . . X O . O X . . O X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O X . . . X . . O X X |
$$ | . . . , . X O . X , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O X . . . . X O . O O . O O . . |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X . X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O X X . X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X X X O O O O O . X X . X O . . . |
$$ | O X O . . X X X X . O X O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . . . . . . X . . . X X |
$$ | . . X O . X . . O , . X X O . X X X O |
$$ | . O O X X X . X O . O X O O . O X O O |
$$ | . O . O O X . X O . X O X . O O O . O |
$$ | . . O . X . X O O . O O X X O . O O 4 |
$$ | . . O . . X O . O X . . O X O O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . X O O O X . . . X . 1 O X X |
$$ | . . . , . X O . X , . . . X . X 3 Q . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O X . . . . X O . O O . O O . . |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X . X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . O X X . X . X X X X . |
$$ | . O X X X O O O O O . X X . X O . . . |
$$ | O X O . . X X X X . O X O O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black captures the 4 white stones, white can capture the 4 black stones.


There is a 7th diagram but I'm done. Hope you enjoyed.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #342 Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:52 pm 
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I got 3/3. Am I officially a bad Sumire fan? (and I had seen this game)

I think it's also a test about how much IA go you get. 1 and also 3 might have been played different in past times.

4 surprised me. I got it wrong. Remember a few posts back? About how she went for wild attacks? In this case, I thought that the wrong answer didn't work, and she would, of course, take the one I judged right. Well, no.

There are some (tons of) reasons why she's the pro, and not me.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #343 Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:32 pm 
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I'm haven't reviewed many of her games, but my impression is that she doesn't back down and she will play the aggressive move (at least in my opinion). Maybe I'm misinterpreting the moves though.

If you all had fun too, I can try to share the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #344 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:03 pm 
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I think the same, she goes for the most aggressive move. Sometimes, I just don't see which is the most...

I think it was interesting, but posting it is a lot of effort. So up to you.

BTW: go to your calendars, check Oct. 4th and clear it. Nakamura-Kobayashi. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #345 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:49 pm 
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pajaro wrote:
BTW: go to your calendars, check Oct. 4th and clear it. Nakamura-Kobayashi. :twisted:

Oh wow! I checked her page and I see that this match is in the Oza tournament Section B. But I don't know if it will be broadcast on YouTube because it is not in the list of upcoming matches: https://www.youtube.com/c/nihonkiin_ch/ ... shelf_id=0

Is there somewhere else that it would be broadcast or discussed?

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #346 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:08 pm 
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Which Kobayashi?

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #347 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:16 pm 
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kvasir wrote:
Which Kobayashi?

Koichi
https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/player/htm/ki000001.html

By the way, there is a list of recent tournament results along with upcoming matches at the bottom. I'm pretty sure that this feature was only added in the past few months. It's very useful. No need to open 12 tabs of tournament brackets.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #348 Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:07 pm 
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I just got my copy of Go World. It looks like they've moved on to celebrating Iyama in the pamphlet (and in the magazine). So maybe the "Sumire's move" feature is over.

They do include a commentary on Sumire's game in the Wu Quingyuan Cup (spelling?) against "Kimu Chuyon" (Kim Chey...?). Sumire is White.

Here is the game record:
https://u-gen.nihonkiin.or.jp/kifu_new/ ... .jpg&wh=qr

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #349 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:27 am 
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CDavis7M wrote:
They do include a commentary on Sumire's game in the Wu Quingyuan Cup (spelling?) against "Kimu Chuyon" (Kim Chey...?).


Spelling? Take your pick. Wiki uses Qingyuan, IIRC

Take care

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #350 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:40 am 
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Spelling: Go Seigen Cup :) (versus Kim Ch'ae-yeong).

Go lived nearly 90% of his life in Japan and was naturalised. And as for the event being in China, even Wikipedia, as I bet most people here do, says Hong Kong, not Xiang Gang, and Sun Tzu is far commoner than Sun Zi, taichi than taiji etc etc.

But we are spoiled for choice actually. Go used three different names in Japan, one being pure Japanese (just briefly, in 1948), and had one other misapplied to him (misreading by Japanese people).

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #351 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:26 am 
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Ah, "Wu" should have tipped me off that this was Go Seigen. Go world will give you the Japanese pronunciation for names, but nothing else. Thanks for the details.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #352 Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:13 am 
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Quote:
Ah, "Wu" should have tipped me off that this was Go Seigen. Go world will give you the Japanese pronunciation for names, but nothing else. Thanks for the details.


It's noble of you to It's noble of you to admit you didn't recognise the Chinese version. That just reinforces the sense of using the Japanese version (which is also a lot easier to say).

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #353 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 12:35 am 
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CDavis7M wrote:
pajaro wrote:
But I don't know if it will be broadcast on YouTube because it is not in the list of upcoming matches: https://www.youtube.com/c/nihonkiin_ch/ ... shelf_id=0

Is there somewhere else that it would be broadcast or discussed?


The game has just been scheduled (AFAIK) so there is still a chance that it will be broadcasted. The Sumire hype is still going on, and Kobayashi Koichi is not some random 9p ;-)
But if it not broadcasted live, there a couple of youtube channels that will surely discuss it. In Japanese, I am afraid. I can't understand it, but sometimes, just the plays that they replay, tone of the voice, the "hmmm"... is useful.

We'll have to wait, but I'd like to see it live. Not only the play, but the body language. As I said before, I think Kobayashi will win, but how will she handle the situation?

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #354 Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:43 am 
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The game with Kobayashi Koichi is over. Sumire lost with white, B +5.5.

I watched only a bit in WBaduk. I think the Japanese server is then Nihon Kiin one. Yuugen no ma?
Anyway, what surprised me was the use of time. When I logged in, Sumire was already in her last minute of byo-yomi, while Kobayashi had still 50 minutes of his main time. I don't know the number of move.

I guess Sumire was ultra cautious.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #355 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:11 am 
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pajaro wrote:
Anyway, what surprised me was the use of time. When I logged in, Sumire was already in her last minute of byo-yomi, while Kobayashi had still 50 minutes of his main time. I don't know the number of move.

I guess Sumire was ultra cautious.


The time data on wBaduk isn't reliable for longer Japanese games, as they don't stop during breaks. It's likely that it was Sumire's turn during the lunch interval, so she would have had an extra 45 minutes compared to what wBaduk was indicating.


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Post #356 Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:29 am 
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Oh, right...

I didn't know this, but I saw something like +45min. I didn't pay too much attention. I found it strange, because Sumire seemed to have lost on time. I thought that the broadcasting had some delay.

Some comment read on-line: the game was close until yose, but then Kobayashi's experience hit hard.

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Post #357 Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:38 pm 
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After some time, Sumire has played (and won) 2 official games. She played them the same day, against Kobayashi Chizu first, and SHimosaka Miori later. Female Meijin, prelims.

Two games the same day? I was surprised. Turns out, players have only 1 hour, quite fast for a tournament like this. You play in the morning, and depending on the result, you choose your lunch. But only one missed day of school.

About the female Meijin, here is something else that I didn't know. Years ago, the main tournament was a league, with seeded players, a challenger, and so on. Then it changed to a knock out tournament for a couple of years. And in 2020, it wasn't played. I don't know if it was delayed due to the pandemic, or other issues. But the tournament came back in 2021, with a new sponsor and, again, with a league. Being the first edition of the league, all seats (7) were open. So the prelims were only 3 rounds, I think. After this edition, some players keep their seats and only a few (3) are demoted. So the next prelims will be tougher, with many more rounds.

Only last thing: Kobayashi Izumi is very near of Sumire in the pairings. If Kobayashi won her games yesterday (same day as Sumire), they will play next. The Kobayashis can comment next time they all meet.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #358 Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:54 pm 
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I nearly forgot!

Very important: Sumire had her hair cut. She lost her ponytail.

;-)


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