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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #61 Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:46 am 
Judan

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For completeness of comparing like with like, here's Sumire's game with lz226 at 3300 playouts. Her big mistake hanging connect on right side did indeed go up to 20% in lz226 view. Interestingly with lz226's stronger analysis Oh Yujin's biggest mistake was almost as bad, -18% for q7 push: lz says it's much better to directly connect under at s6 because losing a liberty means if you do that next white gets b9 valuable move in sente for free, so Oh resisted that with the hane there first but then white got to capture that stone in sente for some nice eyeshape (as compensation black got more profit in the centre, and those cut weaknesses ended up eliciting Sumire's to make her biggest mistake, so on a human psychological level of making bad moves because you can predict it will encourage even worse moves from opponent maybe it was Oh Yujin's best move!). And in fact Sumire's prior move at r9 was almost as bad: p11 is better because it too is effectively sente for s6 but is much more useful on the outside fight for surrounding the 2 black stones.
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sumire oh yujin lz 226 3300p.PNG
sumire oh yujin lz 226 3300p.PNG [ 171.21 KiB | Viewed 2436 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #62 Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:13 pm 
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https://twitter.com/mainichi_igo/status ... 0389756928

We can expect a game on July, 8 against Tanaka Chieko 4p.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #63 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:02 pm 
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ez4u wrote:
I never thought I would be standing shoulder to shoulder with Canny Onion but...

Level unlocked :-)

ez4u wrote:
It really annoyed me that this is apparently the Nihon Ki'in view of the current state of Japanese Go - Iyama and... a ten-year-old child who hasn't won a game yet?!! So much for its 95 years of effort. :sad:

I don't see anything sad there, unless you want to read too much into it; I can think of message of encouragement for young kids to study Go and become pro, or message about "here are our strongest and newest members", etc.
Cheer up :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #64 Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:13 pm 
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TheCannyOnion wrote:
sorin wrote:
From what the Korean pros said, namely that she is way stronger than equivalent Korean insei at the same age, I think would put her somewhere close to Euro pros.

What Korean pros? Their names? When did they say it? What was the context? Were these pros connected to Sumire, such as teaching at the Korean dojo that trained Sumire? Care to refer me to a source?

Sorry, I don't have the exact source now, but I remember reading this as part of the general news when she was introduced to the Go world. It was said by the pro leading the Korean school she studied at. Something similar was also repeated by the Japanese pros who tested her (Cho U and Iyama) - along the lines of "very hard to believe this is a 9-10 years old".

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #65 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:49 am 
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sorin wrote:
TheCannyOnion wrote:
sorin wrote:
From what the Korean pros said, namely that she is way stronger than equivalent Korean insei at the same age, I think would put her somewhere close to Euro pros.

What Korean pros? Their names? When did they say it? What was the context? Were these pros connected to Sumire, such as teaching at the Korean dojo that trained Sumire? Care to refer me to a source?

Sorry, I don't have the exact source now, but I remember reading this as part of the general news when she was introduced to the Go world. It was said by the pro leading the Korean school she studied at. Something similar was also repeated by the Japanese pros who tested her (Cho U and Iyama) - along the lines of "very hard to believe this is a 9-10 years old".


Of course they would say that. On the other hand...

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=240925#p240925

May the puffery continue unabated. Cheers! :clap: :clap: :clap: :salute: :salute: :salute: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #66 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:03 pm 
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https://mainichi.jp/articles/20190620/k ... 40/376000c

It appears Nakamura Sumire is going to play pair go 18-20 August together with another young pro Fukuoka Kotaro?

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #67 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:27 am 
Judan

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Another loss, against Murukawa Daisuke 8p. She kept the game even and even a gained a slight advantage (s6 nice tesuji) as black up to move 46, but 47 was a critical mistake because her group only lived in ko and it allowed white to make eyeshape than the better move at o3 (which made r1 capture have bigger followup so W likely can't ignore that r3 atari). And no miracle comeback from a 1% position like Park Junghwan managed.



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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #68 Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:39 pm 
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I enjoyed her game against Murakawa. I liked that she played the AI joseki. Murakawa's choice of joseki in the lower right was harsh. the extra large knight move and the shoulder hit on the fifth line feel like they are meant to test/confuse her. But it was a nice game that showed her fighting spirit.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #69 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:15 am 
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Sumire won her first official tournament game. I transcribed the game from video-broadcast (there might be mistakes!) but I was a little late and there was no option to rewind it back. Hopefully since news will be all over it we'll get a proper sgf soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #70 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:39 am 
Judan

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That's nice for Sumire, though I when I looked up Tanaka Chieko on goratings she has the dubious distinction of being the absolute last placed at 1016 out of 1016 players listed, with her last win in the go4go db coming in 2004 and 1989 before that!

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #71 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:11 am 
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Yes, Tanaka isn't very strong but that's life. I skimmed through random recent female tournaments and found her participating consistently and in my sample she won 3 times and lost 14 times, for example, she won a game in 37th female honinbo preliminaries and that's like 2017.

Anyway, we can't expect 10yo girl to win title holders in her first year, can we now.


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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #72 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Tanaka doesn't appear to be all that active, with Go4go recording only 10 games in the last 26 years! Moreover, Tanaka's rating is only 2279, but I can't be sure this is accurate, given the paucity of data. But 2279 is some 315 points lower than Rita Pocsai, an European amateur 4-dan!

I wonder if Tanaka was handpicked to play Sumire... It's important that Sumire be put in the best possible position to win her first official game.

What a farce and a disgrace!


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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #73 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:34 pm 
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According to Goratings.org* Ariane Ougier is stronger than Pavol Lisy.

I wonder if you just trolling, or you are really serious. If first case is true then i congratulate you for deceiving admins of Lifein19x19 for so long. If second, then i feel really sorry.


*If someone has not much games in databse (Ariane Ougier has 3, Tanaka Chieko has 24), expecting any ranking system to do good job is too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #74 Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:42 pm 
Judan

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I think of TheCannyOnion more as a pet chihuahua, kept for the amusement of its predictable yapping anytime Iyama or Sumire is mentioned, than a deceitful troll. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #75 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 pm 
Oza
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TheCannyOnion wrote:
Tanaka doesn't appear to be all that active, with Go4go recording only 10 games in the last 26 years! Moreover, Tanaka's rating is only 2279, but I can't be sure this is accurate, given the paucity of data. But 2279 is some 315 points lower than Rita Pocsai, an European amateur 4-dan!

I wonder if Tanaka was handpicked to play Sumire... It's important that Sumire be put in the best possible position to win her first official game.

What a farce and a disgrace!

This simply reflects the bias of goratings since it uses published games. Mamumamu's site shows her with 12 games over the last 12 months - all losses! There is no lack of quite weak pros at the bottom of the list, so little need to "hand pick" an opponent. I think Sumire is no where near the top but no where near the bottom in Japan.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #76 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:01 pm 
Judan

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On mamumamu's list Tanaka Chieko (goratings 1016/1016) is 439 of 444 with a rating of 2,5 (Iyama at top is 9.5). Michael Redmond (goratings 658/1016 with 2 wins 3 losses in last year) is 108/444 with 13 wins 8 losses at 6.97.


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Post #77 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:20 pm 
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The clip says today July 10, 2019 Wed local time 3:50 pm. Ms. Sumire v. Globis-AQZ.
Attachment:
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IMG_4370.PNG [ 1.04 MiB | Viewed 1292 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #78 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:41 am 
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Arcaress wrote:
Sumire won her first official tournament game. I transcribed the game from video-broadcast but I was a little late and there was no option to rewind it back. Hopefully since news will be all over it we'll get a proper sgf soon.

See FKisei/23/Q02.sgf.
I have 53 games by Tanaka Chieko, 13 won and 40 lost.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #79 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:26 am 
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For whatever its worth,

Attachment:
Nakamura1dan.png
Nakamura1dan.png [ 179.4 KiB | Viewed 1199 times ]


That's got to be the sharpest drop I've seen so far (L wanted G13). Also, Leela didn't like 17, but once done it didn't understand why nobody would settle the damn corner.

Take care.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #80 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:30 pm 
Judan

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Ferran wrote:
That's got to be the sharpest drop I've seen so far


Park Yeonghun can give Tanaka a run for her money, though admittedly over the course of 3 not 1 moves. https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=246323#p246323

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