It is currently Mon Feb 26, 2024 2:13 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 658 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 29, 30, 31, 32, 33
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #641 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:41 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 720
Liked others: 1011
Was liked: 30
Rank: BGA 3 kyu
KGS: Elom, Windnwater
OGS: Elom, Elom0
Online playing schedule: The OGS data looks pretty so I'll pause for now before I change it.
John Fairbairn wrote:
Indeed, the news is now out in the wider press, and it appears she has already made (on 10 September) an application to be be a guest player in the Hanguk Giwon

THe video I was watched yesterday was posted on the day before that, which says she had already applied by september 8th


For a Korean perspective,

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #642 Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2023 5:11 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
I *think* Sumire is in her 3rd year of Junior High School. I am not sure because academic year (as well as fiscal year, and others) go from April to March, and it is a bit difficult for me to keep track. But if I am right, and John is right too about her moving to Korea in March, it would make perfect sense. No need to look for a Japanese/International school (assuming she won't continue with school), and full time dedicated to study and play go.

A real boost to her performance. Or at least, a real chance to see if her potential is real, which everybody hopes.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #643 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:11 am 
Oza

Posts: 3635
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4617
I'm seeing quite a lot of misinformation about previous transfers in the go world in the wake of the Sumire announcement.

I'm not prepared to do any research on this, but just from the top of my head, I'll mention a few things that will show it's not all a case of Taiwan to Japan, and Rui Naiwei was not the first mould-breaker in going to Korea.

In no special order - just as it popped out of my brain (then checking dates with the GoGoD Onomasticon):

1. MIYASAKI SHIMAKO
Japanese. She went to China to study go for one year in 1989 and was allowed to take part in the 1st Chinese Women's Mingren. She finished 7th.

2. YU KYEONG-MIN
A Korean professional with the Korean Go Association who transferred to Taiwan in 2005-07 as a guest of the Taiwan Qiyuan to help raise the level of go there (and also to indulge his own interests in things Chinese).

3. ZHANG ZHENGPING
Originally a Taiwanese-born professional who becane a 1-dan with the Korean Go Association in 1998, though she later transferred back to Taiwan to became the first female professional in Taiwan in 2000 (while also retaining Korean professional status till 2010). Zhang's case is especially interesting as she first enrolled as an insei in the Nihon Ki-in at age 12 but she transferred to Korea at age 17 to study with Kweon Kap-yong.

4. HUANG YAN
Chinese professional originally with the Chinese Go Association but transferred to Korean Go Association in Korea in 1994 as 2-dan. She was, for examle, runner-up in the 5th Women's Kuksu and the 5th Bohae in 1998).

5. MAO YUHENG
Chinese professional with the Chinese Go Association. She was chosen in 2003 to go to study in Korea with Kweon Kap-yong, at a time when Chinese players en masse were switching from learning Japanese to learning Korean. On her return to China she was appointed as a PR ambassador for Hangzhou and was known also in China as a go presenter on CCTV.

6. JIANG ZHUJIU
When mentioning Rui Naiwei going to Korea, we should also not overlook that her husband went with her (1999).

Depending bow far back you want to go, there are other examples, and also slightly different examples. For example, Yi Se-tola and Kim Chi-seok defied their own association in Korea to go and play as guests in China. In Kim's case it was mainly for a love of things Chinese, like Yu Kyeong-min.

Maybe the earliest example of transfer if you do go back in history is Gu Shuiru, from China to Japan. As the top player in China then, he first went to Japan in 1915 and studied there for two years at the school of Hirose Heijiro. This was before the Nihon Ki-in existed, so we can't really talk about transferring associations, but the intent was the same.

Kim In was the first Korean to transfer associations. He joined Kitani Minoru's school as a Korean 3-dan in 1962. He technically had to re-qualify in Japan, but as he won all his games in the Oteai he was allowed to jump straight from 0-dan to 3-dan, thus equalling Go Seigen's record. Perhaps deciding he had nothing more to learn in Japan, he returned to Korea after a year, eventually winning over 20 titles with a career record of 860 win in 1568 official games. He was also, until Yi Ch'ang-ho came along, the holder of the record for most consecutive wins (40).

If you want to go back a VERY long way, you might want to count Abe no Nakamaro going from Japan to China in the 8th century, though whether he was really a pukka go player is open to to question. But we can't question the credentials of Kyochu, a Japanese priest who went to China in the late 15th century. He was a strong player wrote a go book in Chinese, part of which is still extant in the weird but famous Shiqing-lu.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #644 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:52 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 863
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 166
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
The news on the Nihon kiin webpage are informative.

Going by google translate it says that the reports are true, that she has asked to transfer as a visiting player and that the kiin is supporting here. It also states that KBF(?) is expected to decide on the arrangement around the end of the year and that it is expected that she would play in Japan until end of February 2024 and then start playing in Korea.

What seems very unusual is if she defends the female Kisei title and the visit lasts long enough then she will have to get a leave from Korea to defend the title again :)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #645 Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2023 8:58 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
kvasir wrote:

What seems very unusual is if she defends the female Kisei title and the visit lasts long enough then she will have to get a leave from Korea to defend the title again :)


I thought about this too.

But it's only 3 games (or 2). Last year, when Sumire won it, one game per week. If Sumire has to defend while she is in Korea, she could travel for every game, or games can be scheduled closer in time, so that she can make only one trip. Whatever happens, I don't see any problem. Right now, as a Japanese player, she travels to China and Korea for games, and the organizers make it work.

But yes, it would be interesting to see her defending the title as a "non active" player.

In this tournament, she has to worry only about a few games in very specific dates. In all other tournaments, she could be still running when she leaves. Will she forfeit all those games? Will she compete until she loses (again, travelling)?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #646 Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:49 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Some remaining prelim games for the Wakakoi (Hiroshima Aluminum) Cup were played yesterday.

I took a look at the pairings, and Sumire wasn't there. So it seems that she is already a non-active pro in Japan.

She is a player of the female Meijin league. I wonder if she will play in it, or if she even will defend the female Kisei title.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #647 Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 12:19 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
pajaro wrote:

She is a player of the female Meijin league. I wonder if she will play in it.


The schedule for the league is out there, and Sumire is in it. Her first game, with Hoshiai Shiho, will be next Nov 2nd. But the last one will be around march or so. After the big good bye?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #648 Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:19 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Update on Sumire's transfer to Korea:

https://www.47news.jp/10044577.html

Roughly translated, she will defend the female Kisei in January and will move to Korea in March.

The female Meijin final will be in April (just saying).

So, it seems that both pro organizations agree to let Sumire defend her title, but all other games... could Sumire have to forfeit the last games of the female Meijin league?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #649 Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:43 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 44
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 8
pajaro wrote:
Update on Sumire's transfer to Korea:

https://www.47news.jp/10044577.html

Roughly translated, she will defend the female Kisei in January and will move to Korea in March.

The female Meijin final will be in April (just saying).

So, it seems that both pro organizations agree to let Sumire defend her title, but all other games... could Sumire have to forfeit the last games of the female Meijin league?


So, does this mean that if she successfully defends her title, she can continue redefending every year until she loses?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #650 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:31 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
hzamir wrote:

So, does this mean that if she successfully defends her title, she can continue redefending every year until she loses?


I don't know, that's too much to say right now.

I find it hard to believe that a title holder couldn't defend her title, even in her situation. But we still don't know about her status as a NK player. This situation is new, but probably won't be the only one. More players might want to try an adventure and who knows, perhaps non top Korean players might want to play in Japan because, if you are not going to win titles, you might want to get more money.

Whatever happens with Sumire, it will set the tone for the future. She has made history before, she is still making.


Last edited by pajaro on Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #651 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:57 am 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: OGS 5 kyu
Tygem: 3dan
OGS: 5kyu
https://discord.com/invite/XmeRNcXZ
We are "Smile&Go!"
It is still an unofficial fan club and we are not receiving any money.
It is operated in Korea and is available in Korean, Japanese, and English.
On the days of Nakamura's matches, if there are fans from overseas, we also hold a special cheering party for them.
Let’s cheer and have fun together.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Lets Join Sumire Fan Club.
Post #652 Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 6:18 am 
Beginner

Posts: 3
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: OGS 5 kyu
Tygem: 3dan
OGS: 5kyu
https://discord.com/invite/XmeRNcXZ
We are "Smile&Go!"
It is still an unofficial fan club and we are not receiving any money.
It is operated in Korea and is available in Korean, Japanese, and English.
On the days of Nakamura's matches, if there are fans from overseas, we also hold a special cheering party for them.
Let’s cheer and have fun together.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #653 Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:22 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
MiRES wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhyg5jgNr8

For more information, please watch the show.


Another link for the same press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhyg5jgNr8

I don't know if any of them will provide subtitles in English (seriously doubting it). But it can't hurt to have options.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #654 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:27 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
I saw the press conference.

Automatic translated subtitles, some tweets... and I kind of understood a bit of what she told.

Sumire wants to improve, wants to become stronger, so she wants to go to Korea because the level is higher and she can play more games. In the future, the level in Japan might rise (I think that the use of IA is rising the level everywhere). But playing "more games" is related to each country. In Japan, games are longer (most of them, 3 hours or longer per player), few games per month, unless you win a lot, and more important: you lose, you are out of a tournament until next year. Leagues and titles games are only for a few players. So it takes a long time to gain experience. In Korea, even if you don't win a lot, you can play more. Money is key, too.

Also, Sumire will play again in Japan, but she doesn't know when. She was asked "would you like to play representing Japan?". An adult voice helped her here... her main concern now is to get stronger.

Last thing I think is interesting: she was asked to grade her performance since she became pro. Sumire said "70". Considering that she has won a title, she had chances to win more, she played in the C Kisei league and reached some A prelims... I'd say that 70 is short. But that shows her level of commitment. She sets her goals way higher.

About her future status, or Japanese games that she might have to play after March 2nd, she didn't say anything. Perhaps Kobayashi Satoru, who spoke after her, said something.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #655 Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2023 11:57 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Sumire is playing in the Teikei cup. First, it's a round-robbin league of 6 players, which means she will play 5 games with strong opponents, no matter the result.

And today, Sumire played the Meijin. Sumire lost, would have been a great shock if she won. But although she was behind in the beginning of the game, she was ahead for a good part of it. Of course, in the end Shibano is not Meijin for nothing, and he won. But only by 2.5 moku. I'd say, it's quite a decent game and a result that most players could be proud of.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #656 Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:16 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Since Sumire lost to Shibano, she has also lost her female Kisei title to Ueno Risa 2-dan. I think that her mental strength has played a crucial role. Still young ;-)

Other than this, Sumire's record in January was 5-1. Not against stronger opponents, but anyway, she is now 70 in Mamumamu, gaining 15 positions in January. She had been stranded for 2-3 months, so I'd say that this position makes sense.

Sumire leaves to Korea in March. I don't know exactly when. As of now, she is still playing in the Kisei, the Meijin, O shinjin, female Meijin, and probably others. But in the other big ones, she is already out. What will happen if she wins her February games? Will she have to forfeit after she leaves Japan, or travel back? The only I know is that, in the female Meijin league, there was some change in the schedule. Probably, her March game was played before. But it was a league. You can't do that in prelims.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #657 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:13 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Small update: Sumire won today in the Kisei against Okuda Aya 4-dan.
Next game, Meijin game against Ryu Shikun 9-dan (youtuber... he will surely comment his own game). And then, the last female Meijin league against Nyu Eiko.

And then... according to https://gorisenri.livedoor.blog/archives/nakamura-sumire-all.html, her next scheduled games will be loses by forfeit.
Sumire will like be second in the female Meijin league, because Fujisawa Rina is undefeated and I think she will win her remaining games. But I wonder what would happen if Sumire became challenger.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Following Nakamura Sumire
Post #658 Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2024 3:58 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 530
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 142
KGS: pajaro
IGS: pajaro
Today, Sumire won her last official game in Japan before leaving to Korea.

Defeated Nyu Eiko in the female Meijin league. The result was important only for Nyu, I think.

After the game, there was a short press conference. Sumire is hoping to do her best, etc, etc, same that she has told before. Her life has been only go, so far. From now on, it doesn't look like it will change much.

Good luck.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 658 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 29, 30, 31, 32, 33

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group