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 Post subject: IMSA World Masters
Post #1 Posted: Sun May 12, 2019 5:21 pm 
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5/14 Man's and Woman's team competition 1st and 2nd round
5/15 Man's and Woman's team competition 3rd and 4th round
5/16 Man's and Woman's team competition 5th round
Pair 1st round
5/17 Pair 2nd round and 3rd round
5/18 Pair Final

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #2 Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 1:40 am 
Judan

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This will be a good opportunity to see the EGF and AGA pros playing some top Asian pros. Anyone know broadcast details? I'm guessing they'll be on Fox/Yike.

From https://www.intergofed.org/igf-news-fee ... rules.html

China: Ke Jie, Mi Yuting, Gu Zihao, Yu Zhiying, Wang Chenxing
Japan: Murakawa Daisuke, Ida Atsushi, Motoki Katsuya, Mukai Chikai, Nyu Eiko
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Lee Ji Hyun, Park Jeong Hwan, Choi Jeong, Oh Yujin
Chinese Taipei: Yuan-Jyun Wang, Li-Hsiang Lin, Hao-Hung Hsu, Joanne Missingham, Hsin-Hui Pai
Europe: Ilya Shikshin, Pavol Lisy, Mateusz Surma, Natalia Kovaleva, Ariane Ougier
North America: Ryan Li, William Shi, Eric Lui, Xuefen Lin, Gabriella Su

(Followers of the Transatlantic team timeout drama will note the opportunity for an Eric vs Mateusz rematch. Also the players/organisers will discuss that case in person there).

My predictions:

Men team:
1. China
2. Korea (but hard to call vs China, maybe Shin and Park can carry them)
3. Taiwan
4. Japan
5. Europe
6. North America

Women team:
1. Korea
2. China
3. Taiwan
4. Japan
5. North America
6. Europe

3 and 4 close for men and women, Japan not sending their best otherwise they'd be 3.

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #3 Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:16 pm 
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I see the schedules are as below: https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/gonews/detail/25031?type=1

Morning game starts at 9:30 and afternoon starts at 14:00.

I don't think a Mateusz Vs Eric game will happen as Mateusz is Board 1 while Eric is in Broad 3. Europe plays North America in the 3rd round (May 15, 9:30am), Mateusz vs Ryan, Ilya vs Gansheng, Pavol vs Eric.

PS. Mateusz is in a losing position against Park, but Ryan is slightly leading (black 67%) against Murakawa when I'm watching on Fox Go at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #4 Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:36 pm 
Judan

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Here's the game Surma (white) vs Park. They had one of those complicated modern 3-3 invasion josekis which turned into a big fight which Park won. Variations are from FineArt (Jueyi) on Fox and me with LZ. Highlights:
- a14 hane should h15 atari in middle, it's ok to not set up seki in corner because even if you die attacking top with l17 is big compensation and black has to watch his libs. f19 should also h15.
- Park's h19 should be d18
- c19 big (-40%) mistake, should be h16
- but Park's h14 almost returns the favour (-26%) as it allows W to almost revent with the pleasing atari. Instead set up corner seki and extend at h15 to make nice eyeshape. FineArt agrees.
- Surma j15 overplay. He presumably wanted black to directly atari without pushing once, so when black tried to improve on that resisted, but submitting was wiser. h12 turn still decent after.
- k15 mistake is an interesting shape lesson I've seen before. Locally the move you want is j16 comedy empty triangle because it sets up the snapback shortage of libs at h17 which gives black a problem in taking a liberty for the corner semeai. LZ says best order is to probe first in corner, black ignores to capture outside 2 stones but their aji means white has effectively captured the corner because if he tries to make the seki then white breaks out k16.
- r17 3-3 greedy as gote, centre fight balance of power bigger
- d11 wrong shape, but it's hard fighting anyway and Park goes for the jugular.



Attachment:
surma park.PNG
surma park.PNG [ 175.15 KiB | Viewed 2111 times ]


Attachments:
Surma(white) vs Park [朴廷桓]vs[马特乌斯]1557803096010001745.sgf [29.44 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #5 Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:46 pm 
Judan

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Some results from Fox:

Women
Joanne Missingham (TWN) beat Mukai Chiaki (JPN)
Oh Yujin (KOR) beat Wang Chenxing (CHN)
Choi Jeong (K) beat Yu Zhiying (C)

Men
Gu Zihao (C) beat Xu Haohong 6p (T)
Ke Jie (C) beat Wang Yuanjun(T)
Park Junghwan (K) beat Mateusz Surma (Eur)

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #6 Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 10:07 pm 
Judan

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Choi Jeong (Black) vs Yu Zhiying, the top 2 women in the world (but Oh Yujin is catching up).



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[(B) Choi 崔精]vs[Yu 於之莹]1557807092010001673.sgf [7.9 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #7 Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 2:01 am 
Judan

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Some round 2 results:

Men:
Ke Jie (C) beat Park Junghwan (K) (as usual white won)
Mi Yuting (C) beat Shin Jinseo (K)
Gu Zihao (C) beat Lee Jihyun (K)
So China sweep Korea in this crucial match
Ida Atsushi (J) beat Ilya Shikshin (E) (another variation of that Mi Yuting 3-3 joseki like Mateusz).

Women:
Mukai Chiaki (J) beat Choi Jeong(K), big upset!
Yu Zhiying(C) beat Lin Xuefen USA.

macelee has already added a bunch of games to go4go:
http://www.go4go.net/go/games/tournament/182

Piecing together the bits:
Round 1:

Men:
China 2 - 1 Taiwan (Lin beat Mi Yuting, upset)
Korea 1+ - 0+ Europe
Japan 1+ - 0+ NA

Women:
Korea 2 - 0 China
Taiwan 1+ - 0+ Japan
Europe 0+ - 0+ NA

Round 2:

Men:
China 3 - 0 Korea
Japan 1+ - 0+ Europe
Taiwan 1+ - 0+ NA

Women:
China 1+ - 0+ NA
Japan 1 - 1 Korea
Taiwan 0+ - 0+ Europe

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #8 Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:34 am 
Judan

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Unfortunately Ryan Li lost to Murukawa Daisuke. The opening was a little bad for him but he took the lead from middlegame fighting on right and impressively held onto it for a while. However, bad aji of the 2 stones was too much, m9 was an overplay trying to keep everything and Murakawa seized his chance to make miai and punish him.



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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #9 Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Women
Missingham (TWN) beat Chiaki (JPN)
Oh (KOR) beat Chenxing (CHN)

Uberdude: thanks for keeping us up to date. i'd only suggest using full names - i think it is nicer to read and in the first round you mixed some first and last names

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #10 Posted: Tue May 14, 2019 8:50 am 
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Since no one posted full results list, I decided to make one myself.

Round 1:

Europe 0-3 Korea
Mateusz Surma 0-1 Park Junghwan
Ilya Shikshin 0-1 Shin Jinseo
Pavol Lisy 0-1 Lee Jihyun

Japan 3-0 North America
Murakawa Daisuke 1-0 Ryan Li
Ida Atsushi 1-0 Gansheng Shi
Motoki Katsuya 1-0 Eric Lui

Chinese Taipei 1-2 China
Wang Yuanjun 0-1 Ke Jie
Lin Lixiang 1-0 Mi Yuting
Xu Haohong 0-1 Gu Zihao

Women:

Chinese Taipei 1-1 Japan
Joanne Missingham 1-0 Mukai Chiaki
Bai Xinhui 0-1 Nyu Eiko

Europe 0-2 North America
Natalia Kovaleva 0-1 Lin Xuefen
Ougier Ariane 0-1 Su Gabriella

China 0-2 Korea
Yu Zhiying 0-1 Choi Jeong
Wang Chenxing 0-1 Oh Yujin

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-14 ... 4360.shtml

Round 2:

Europe 0-3 Japan
Mateusz Surma 0-1 Murakawa Daisuke
Ilya Shikshin 0-1 Ida Atsushi
Pavol Lisy 0-1 Motoki Katsuya

North America 0-3 Chinese Taipei
Ryan Li 0-1 Wang Yuanjun
Gansheng Shi 0-1 Lin Lixiang
Eric Lui 0-1 Xu Haohong

Korea 0-3 China
Park Junghwan 0-1 Ke Jie
Shin Jinseo 0-1 Mi Yuting
Lee Jihyun 0-1 Gu Zihao

Women:

Chinese Taipei 2-0 Europe
Joanne Missingham 1-0 Natalia Kovaleva
Bai Xinhui 1-0 Ougier Ariane

North America 0-2 China
Lin Xuefen 0-1 Yu Zhiying
Su Gabriella 0-1 Wang Chenxing

Japan 1-1 Korea
Mukai Chiaki 1-0 Choi Jeong
Nyu Eiko 0-1 Oh Yujin

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-14 ... 0352.shtml


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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #11 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:59 am 
Judan

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A few more results:

Europe beat NA 2-1. Mateusz Surma lost to Ryan Li, not sure of the Ilya/Pavol vs Gansheng/Eric pairings.

Ryan then got soundly beaten up be Ke Jie.

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #12 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:36 pm 
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Round 3:

Europe 2-1 North America
Mateusz Surma 0-1 Ryan Li https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18163
Ilya Shikshin 1-0 Gansheng Shi
Pavol Lisy 1-0 Eric Lui

Korea 3-0 Chinese Taipei
Park Junghwan 1-0 Wang Yuanjun https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18155
Shin Jinseo 1-0 Lin Lixiang
Lee Jihyun 1-0 Xu Haohong

Japan 0-3 China
Murakawa Daisuke 0-1 Ke Jie https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/room/18146/1/15347815
Ida Atsushi 0-1 Mi Yuting https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18164
Motoki Katsuya 0-1 Gu Zihao https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18160

Women:

Chinese Taipei 2-0 North America
Joanne Missingham 1-0 Lin Xuefen
Bai Xinhui 1-0 Su Gabriella

Japan 0-2 China
Mukai Chiaki 0-1 Yu Zhiying
Nyu Eiko 0-1 Wang Chenxing https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18161

Europe 0-2 Korea
Natalia Kovaleva 0-1 Choi Jeong https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18162
Ougier Ariane 0-1 Oh Yujin

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-15 ... 2650.shtml

Round 4:

Europe 0-3 Chinese Taipei
Mateusz Surma 0-1 Wang Yuanjun
Ilya Shikshin 0-1 Lin Lixiang
Pavol Lisy 0-1 Xu Haohong https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18175

Korea 3-0 Japan
Park Junghwan 1-0 Murakawa Daisuke https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/room/18169/1/15379732
Shin Jinseo 1-0 Ida Atsushi https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18171
Lee Jihyun 1-0 Motoki Katsuya https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18174

North America 0-3 China
Ryan Li 0-1 Ke Jie https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/room/18154/1/15370462
Gansheng Shi 0-1 Mi Yuting
Eric Lui 0-1 Gu Zihao

Women:

Chinese Taipei 0-2 China
Joanne Missingham 0-1 Yu Zhiying https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18176
Bai Xinhui 0-1 Wang Chenxing https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18173

Japan 2-0 Europe
Mukai Chiaki 1-0 Natalia Kovaleva
Nyu Eiko 1-0 Ougier Ariane

North America 0-2 Korea
Lin Xuefen 0-1 Choi Jeong
Su Gabriella 0-1 Oh Yujin https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/board/18178

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-15 ... 7066.shtml

Yikeweiqi already designated broadcast for tomorrow's Ke Jie vs Surma game: https://home.yikeweiqi.com/#/live/room/18184/1/15393988


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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #13 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm 
Judan

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It's nice that Mateusz was put on board 1, presumably as reward for his Transatlantic performance, and gets to play Ke Jie and Park Junghwan. Getting to play Mi Yuting or Gu Zihao is not bad either of course.

Standings so far are:
Men:
1. China 4W 0L
2. Korea 3W 1L
3. Japan 2W 2L
4. Taiwan 2W 2L
5. Europe 1W 3L
5. NA 0W 4L

Tomorrow is China vs Europe, Japan vs Taiwan (3rd/4th decider), Korea vs NA.

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #14 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:09 pm 
Judan

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Fun move from Mateusz. LZ thinks it's no worse than Ke Jie's kick top left, but he's already fallen to 25% in early opening. There's so many levels in Go...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The games so far, Mateusz black in first variation, Ryan white in 2nd.



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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #15 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:39 pm 
Tengen

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What was the sequence in the lower left?

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #16 Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:48 pm 
Judan

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hyperpape wrote:
What was the sequence in the lower left?

From Mateusz? The usual followup for black of hane in corner after the 4-4 attachment against the big low shimari and white's hane outside is not so good when black doesn't have the ladder (starting at c9 in variation) to upper right (so better not to attach in the first place, playing cool AI attachments all the time isn't wise), so it looks to me like Mateusz went for the extension, KJ played hane and maybe Mateusz wasn't so familiar with the variations so decided to abort and cut his loses and sacrifice instead of getting in a messy fight and messing it up even more.
Obviously I expect Ke Jie to crush him, but it's a shame to have not at least kept it even-ish for a bit longer. I can't help but wonder if all the Transatlantic drama has adversely affected him, which would be a real shame to damage this precious opportunity to play the world's best players.

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #17 Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:11 am 
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Round 5:

Europe 0-3 China
Mateusz Surma 0-1 Ke Jie
Ilya Shikshin 0-1 Mi Yuting
Pavol Lisy 0-1 Gu Zihao

Korea 3-0 North America
Park Junghwan 1-0 Ryan Li
Shin Jinseo 1-0 Gansheng Shi
Lee Jihyun 1-0 Eric Lui

Japan 2-1 Chinese Taipei
Murakawa Daisuke 1-0 Wang Yuanjun
Ida Atsushi 1-0 Lin Lixiang
Motoki Katsuya 0-1 Xu Haohong

Women:

Chinese Taipei 0-2 Korea
Joanne Missingham 0-1 Choi Jeong
Bai Xinhui 0-1 Oh Yujin

Japan 2-0 North America
Mukai Chiaki 1-0 Lin Xuefen
Nyu Eiko 1-0 Su Gabriella

Europe 0-2 China
Natalia Kovaleva 0-1 Yu Zhiying
Ougier Ariane 0-1 Wang Chenxing

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-16 ... 1053.shtml

Also first round of pair go. Chinese Taipei and Europe got additional pair of players as a wildcard. Tournament bracket looks complicated: http://n.sinaimg.cn/sports/transform/33 ... 528937.png

Wang Yuanjun and Joanne Missingham 1-0 Murakawa Daisuke and Nyu Eiko
Shin Jinseo and Choi Jeong 1-0 Mi Yuting and Yu Zhiying
Ilya Shikshin and Natalia Kovaleva 1-0 Eric Lui and Lin Xuefen
Lin Lixiang and Bai Xinhui 1-0 Pavol Lisy and Ougier Ariane

Source: http://sports.sina.com.cn/go/2019-05-16 ... 2138.shtml

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #18 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:28 am 
Judan

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So Men team results are:

1. China 5W 0L
2. Korea 4W 1L
3. Japan 3W 2L
4. Taiwan 2W 3L
5. Europe 1W 4L
6. NA 0W 5L

Women team:

1. Korea 4W 1D 0L
2. China 4W 0D 1L
3. Japan 2W 2D 1L
4. Taiwan 2W 1D 2L
5. NA 1W 0D 4L
6. Europe 0W 0D 5L

(So as I predicted, except Japan finished above Taiwan in both cases).

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #19 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 4:48 am 
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I have seen an EGF document that says the IMSA Elite Mind Games (which seems to be the official name, rather than World Masters) uses Ing rules.

Assuming that's correct, several questions arise, but just a couple here:

1. Why do photos show players using ordinary bowls and not the Ing monstrosities that were more like a toy for 2-year-olds. I can understand players not liking them, but I thought they were integral to scoring the game correctly? Have they been superseded? If so, what is the new counting procedure?

2. Ing rules AFAIK say the komi is 8 points, so why does everyone make it 7.5? I can see that it apparently might not make any difference most of the time, but we have seen in the past, and recently in the Transatlantic Match, that there are people who do fuss over rules.

3. If Ing rules are not in use, which ruleset is used?

4. Has the Ing Foundation relaxed the counting rules in other tournaments (but, if so, I gather they retain the Ing time-payment rules - correct?)

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 Post subject: Re: IMSA World Masters
Post #20 Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:51 pm 
Lives with ko

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John Fairbairn wrote:
1. Why do photos show players using ordinary bowls and not the Ing monstrosities that were more like a toy for 2-year-olds. I can understand players not liking them, but I thought they were integral to scoring the game correctly? Have they been superseded? If so, what is the new counting procedure?

Procedure with Ing's bowls is to open lid, see that all stones are there, and then raise the bottom. After that, you could even simply transfer stones to ordinary bowls.
You can also use other method's to count stones before game:
- wooden board with 30/45/60 holes, where you could easily place stones, and remove them
- precise scale (if you have stones of same weight/size).

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