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 Post subject: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:13 pm 
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The Korean preliminary rounds are happening at the moment. Both Lee Sedol and Lee Changho are still alive and have advanced to the semifinal of their respective groups. Lee Changho was especially impressive in beating Kim Jiseok in the round of 16. 2 more games, and they will make the team. Lee Sedol's group has Han Sanghoon, Park Hamin, and Lee Donghoon remaining, while Lee Changho has Shin Minjun, Weon Seongjin, and Lee Yunjun(?) left in his group.


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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 1:17 am 
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Blackie aka Kim Seungjun 9p played in the prelims (but lost), Diana Koszegi posted about it here:
https://www.facebook.com/diana.koszegi. ... 2338161722



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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #3 Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:33 am 
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Lee Changho advanced to Group B final and will play Weon Seongjin. On the other hand, Lee Sedol lost, and Group A will be decided between Han Sanghoon and Lee Donghoon.

Park Junghwan is in Group C, and his semifinal match got postponed due to his match with Ke Jie. Shin Jinseo, being the top player, got the automatic selection, and there will be one wildcard after the preliminary to round out the team.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Lee Changho lost, and Weon Seongjin is returning to Nongshim for the first time since 2012.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:53 am 
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The Chinese preliminary has kicked off. 3 players got auto-selected based on last year's performance: Ke Jie (Bailing Cup winner), Yang Dingxin (LG winner), and Fan Tingyu (won 7 games at last year's Nongshim). Then the top 15 players from their ranking system + Dang Yifei (by the virtue of clinching last Nongshim) will compete for the other 2 spots in a double-elimination format.

Round 1
Mi Yuting beat Tong Mengcheng
Zhou Ruiyang beat Tao Xinran
Liao Yuanhe beat Dang Yifei
Fan Yunruo beat Xu Jiayang
Gu Zihao beat Lian Xiao
Xie Erhao beat Jiang Weijie
Xie Ke beat Tuo Jiaxi
Chen Yaoye beat Shi Yue

The next round will be held on 07/31:

Winner Bracket
Mi Yuting vs. Zhou Ruiyang
Liao Yuanhe vs. Fan Yunruo
Gu Zihao vs. Xie Erhao
Xie Ke vs. Chen Yaoye

Loser Bracket
Tong Mengcheng vs. Tao Xinran
Dang Yifei vs. Xu Jiayang
Lian Xiao vs. Jiang Weijie
Tuo Jiaxi vs. Shi Yue


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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:17 pm 
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The Korea team, with one wildcard selection pending: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Weon Seongjin.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #7 Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:37 pm 
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Round 2 of Chinese preliminary:

Mi Yuting beat Zhou Ruiyang
Liao Yuanhe beat Fan Yunruo
Xie Erhao beat Gu Zihao
Xie Ke beat Chen Yaoye
Tao Xinran beat Tong Mengcheng
Dang Yifei beat Xu Jiayang
Jiang Weijie beat Lian Xiao
Tuo Jiaxi beat Shi Yue

Winner Bracket
Mi Yuting vs. Liao Yuanhe
Xie Erhao vs. Xie Ke

Loser Bracket
Zhou Ruiyang vs. Fan Yunruo
Gu Zihao vs. Chen Yaoye
Tao Xinran vs. Dang Yifei
Jiang Weijie vs. Tuo Jiaxi

Eliminated: Tong Mengcheng, Xu Jiayang, Lian Xiao, Shi Yue

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #8 Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:52 am 
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Round 3:

Mi Yuting beat Liao Yuanhe
Xie Erhao beat Xie Ke
Zhuo Ruiyang beat Fan Yunruo
Chen Yaoye beat Gu Zihao
Dang Yifei beat Tao Xinran
Jiang Weijie beat Tuo Jiaxi

Winner Bracket
Mi Yuting vs. Xie Erhao

Loser Bracket
Zhuo Ruiyang vs. Xie Ke
Chen Yaoye vs. Liao Yuanhe
Dang Yifei vs. Jiang Weijie

Eliminated: Fan Yunruo, Gu Zihao, Tao Xinran, Tuo Jiaxi

The subsequent rounds will be held next week.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #9 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:10 am 
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Round 4:
Xie Erhao beat Mi Yuting
Chen Yaoye beat Liao Yuanhe
Dang Yifei beat Jiang Weijie

Zhou Ruiyang vs. Xie Ke (postponed)

Xie Erhao became the fourth member of the Chinese team.

Loser Bracket
Mi Yuting vs. Dang Yifei
Chen Yaoye vs. Zhou Ruiyang/Xie Ke

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #10 Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:13 am 
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Kim Jiseok is added to Korean team as wild card.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #11 Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Mi Yuting got the last spot for China by beating Xie Ke. So the lineups so far:

Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Weon Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #12 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Japan:Iyama Yuuta, Yamashita Keigo, Murakawa Daisuke, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo Kagen

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #13 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:13 am 
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When does the actual cup begin? Is there a schedule anywhere of when the games will be played?

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #14 Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:18 am 
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10/14 - Opening ceremony
10/15 - 10/18 4 games
11/19 - 2nd round
Next year - 3rd round

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #15 Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:31 pm 
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Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta. Murakawa Daisuke, Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan)

Game Schedule;
First round:
10/14 - Interview and Opening Ceremony
10/15 - 1st game
10/16 - 2nd game
10/17 - 3rd game
10/18 - 4th game

2nd round:
11/22 - 5th game
11/23 - 6th game
11/24 - 7th game
11/25 - 8th game
11/26 - 9th game

3rd round:
2/17 - 10th game
2/18 - 11th game
2/19 - 12th game
2/20 - 13th game
2/21 - 14th game

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #16 Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:02 pm 
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I've run the probabilities based on the ordering above and the current go ratings:

Korea: 38.4%
Japan: 1.5%
China: 60.1%

Kyo Kagen: 3386
Ichiriki Ryo: 3499,
Yamashita Keigo: 3386
Murakawa Daisuke: 3298
Iyama Yuta: 3439

Mi Yuting: 3634
Xie Erhao: 3600
Fan Tingyu: 3555
Yang Dingxin: 3608
Ke Jie: 3675

Kim Jiseok: 3507
Won Seongjin: 3442
Lee Donghoon: 3532
Park Junghwan: 3670
Shin Jinseo: 3670

It's no surprise that Japan is far behind, but I wondered how much that had to do with the ordering--you'd ideally put Ichiriki last. Ordering all three teams weakest-strongest helped Japan by .2%.

Lastly, China has a 57-41 advantage, even if you put Korea last.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #17 Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:14 pm 
Judan

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That ordering isn't the correct one, I'm not even sure the teams need to declare it in advance. The first game today is Murakawa Daisuke Vs Won Seongjin.

Update Won won.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #18 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:43 am 
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Yes, this is just a placeholder, because the lists are revealed as time goes on.

It turns out that it does make a difference, albeit not necessarily a huge one (https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16027). I ended up not being sure what the best way to handle that. Perhaps I'll just order by strength, and rejigger things as I go. Or, I'll just put the calculator into a website and let the rest of you use it.

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #19 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:41 am 
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1st game;
Won Seongjin defeated Murakawa Daisuke by resign.
2nd game;
Won Seongjin vs Yang Dingxin

Players:
Korea: Shin Jinseo, Park Junghwan, Lee Donghoon, Won Seongjin, Kim Jiseok
China: Ke Jie, Yang Dingxin, Fan Tingyu, Xie Erhao, Mi Yuting
Japan: Iyama Yuuta. Yamashita Keigo, Ichiriki Ryo, Kyo(Xu Jiayuan), Murakawa Daisuke
Bold case - Remaining players

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 Post subject: Re: 21st Nongshim Cup
Post #20 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:07 am 
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@hyperpape (slightly off-topic hence hidden):

it is clear that when there are three teams, winning probabilities depend on the ordering.

Suppose there are three teams with remaining players

Team 1: player A
Team 2: player B
Team 3: players C and D, with D very weak (winning probability against any other player = 0%).

Suppose the next match is Team 1 against Team 3.

If C plays first, then Team 3 wins the tournament if C wins against A and B.

If D plays first, then Team 3 wins the tournament if C wins against the winner of the match of A against B.

We see that in this example, the best strategy is to make weaker players play first. I don't know if there are situations where the optimal strategy is different.

On the other hand, when there are only two teams left, it seems that the order is not important (assuming winning probabilities are computed using Elo's theory), although I don't know how to prove it.

P.S.
Quote:
Update Won won.


How many wons did Won win?

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