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 Post subject: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #1 Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:38 pm 
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I remember reading about the shortest pro game with all yose moves finished. Cannot locate that game now. But the following must be close to that record:

http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/32684

Even in such a short game there is an interesting ko fight.

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #2 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:04 am 
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Not yet close; see below.



Best wishes.

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #3 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:29 am 
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It would be interesting to know at what point Takemiya thought he had gone astray and was behind. He seems to have quite quietly accepted his fate. Does the original game source show how much time was used?

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #4 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:00 am 
Judan

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ez4u wrote:
It would be interesting to know at what point Takemiya thought he had gone astray and was behind. He seems to have quite quietly accepted his fate. Does the original game source show how much time was used?


I seems like k12 is too good a move and it's hard for black from then on, so perhaps h10 is wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #5 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 am 
Honinbo

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Takemiya got beat at his own game.

:w8: is a counter to the yonrensei. Go Seigen recommends it. Was it his idea?

:b23: surprised me, as it lets White get the last big play of the opening with :w24:. To me, White looks good over the whole board.

:b25: was a cool move. :)

:b27: surprised me. I mean, why bother?

:w32: was also a cool move, as Uberdude notes. :)

:b51: also surprised me. Why didn't he invade the left side? :b51: says, I have won, when he really hadn't.

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #6 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:32 am 
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ez4u wrote:
It would be interesting to know at what point Takemiya thought he had gone astray and was behind. He seems to have quite quietly accepted his fate. Does the original game source show how much time was used?


White used 2 hours and 36 minutes and Black used 1 hour and 21 minutes.

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #7 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:02 pm 
Judan

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Bill Spight wrote:
:w8: is a counter to the yonrensei. Go Seigen recommends it. Was it his idea?


Nie Weiping beat Takemiya with it in 1987 in the Japan China Super Go. This game is commented in Yuan Zhou's Master Play style of lots of pros book.

But the first occurrence in GoGoD is in 1976 by Takemiya himself against Yamabe. It seems that being an expert in the yonrensei means he also know what moves are good against it :D .

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #8 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:06 pm 
Honinbo

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Uberdude wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
:w8: is a counter to the yonrensei. Go Seigen recommends it. Was it his idea?


Nie Weiping beat Takemiya with it in 1987 in the Japan China Super Go. This game is commented in Yuan Zhou's Master Play style of lots of pros book.

But the first occurrence in GoGoD is in 1976 by Takemiya himself against Yamabe. It seems that being an expert in the yonrensei means he also know what moves are good against it :D .


Hoist on his own petard. ;)

Thanks. :)

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #9 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Takemiya got beat at his own game.

...
:b51: also surprised me. Why didn't he invade the left side? :b51: says, I have won, when he really hadn't.


My feeble eyes don't see it this way. Look at move 52 (White enclosing the last corner), then fast forward to the end of the game. It seems from move 52 to the end, all of the up for grabs areas go to white. I can't help but think black could have played better. Would be interesting to get Takemiya's take on what he felt was the losing move.

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 Post subject: Re: shortest pro game that is not resigned
Post #10 Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:49 pm 
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TMark wrote:
Not yet close; see below.



Thanks for your information. They 'wasted' too many moves on that ko fight. In fact black's territory (more than 130 points without capturing any big group) is about 10 points more than that in Takemiya-Cho's game, giving me the wrong impression.

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