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 Post subject: Is the TOS up to date?
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:15 am 
Oza
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I bet quite a few of you don't even know where to find the TOS. In fact, if you asked me right now, I wouldn't be able to tell you. So, I'll take a moment to find it before continuing my train of thought.

The FAQ - nope.
This sub-forum - nope.
Board index - Introductions and Guidelines - ah, there it is! It's not even called the TOS!

So what is it? It's a post. A post by Araban. In case you don't know, Araban is or was one of the L19 mods. I say "is or was" because it's not clear whether or not he is still active, as all of the adminning here seems to be done by two people - Joaz Banbeck and TChan001 - who have taken it in their hands to uphold the rules as outlined in that post.

The issue I'm raising is whether this post still accurately reflects the will of the site owner whose stated interest is to serve the needs of this community.

The reason I raise the issue is the the robotic following of this TOS has recently led to the bizarre situation that a professional go player informing us of her services was given the kind welcome by the L19 administration of being told that her post is not welcome. To add injury to insult, the post was then locked to prevent members from showing Ms. Shiksina their support.

So where did this TOS come from? It wouldn't surprise me if it was entirely penned by Araban and then signed off by the other admins. Araban was an effective moderator who relied less on the TOS than on his own ability to defuse a situation. My guess is that he wrote this TOS largely as a guideline for other admins who did not necessarily possess his clarity.

In his absence, and in the absence of the other moderator Topazg, who like Araban relied on dialog as opposed to red ink to keep order, Araban's post has taken on the quality of a law to be followed to the letter. As long as we have a set of moderators who feel that it is their duty to uphold this law, I would like to suggest that Araban's post be amended in order to better reflect the interests of the community.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the TOS up to date?
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:37 am 
Oza

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Good post, but I'm not sure that it's the "rules and guidelines" that need amending. More useful may be a collective expression of what the forum community wants, so that admins can exercise judgement better on our behalf.

Although I agree that the end result of Shikshina's post was bizarre, I can also see why the admin thought it merited action: to allow it to stand without comment could open some nasty floodgates. I just think it could have been handled more diplomatically, with a comment to Shikshina that she was welcome to make announcements on the forum but should desist from regular advertising, and the thread should have been left open for comment (so that the admin could glean the collective's wishes).

At least, I certainly wouldn't want see regular weekly or monthly posts repetitively offering lessons, or anything else. But announcements of new products (lessons, books, equipment, blogs, sites, commercial or otherwise), or of significant changes in what is offered, should be not just allowed but welcomed, with the existing provisos that they be legal and unobtrusive, which for me would mean: not normally allowing images or excessive length, not allowing repetitiveness, not allowing contentious claims. The "advertisers" should also be obliged to accept discussion and even criticism of their announcements.

I have a sense that the only time many people get irritated is when someone says "how do I learn X" and someone else pops up and says "buy my book". That can be useful information, but it is easy to see that this can be annoying when it is relentless, though my own view is that these things are best handled by giving the perpetrators enough rope to hang themselves. In any case it would be covered by the existing rules and guidelines.

More broadly, I favour a clear but light touch to moderation. I think tchan strikes the right note, and I prefer his style to back-door dialogue simply because he is open and makes clear references.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the TOS up to date?
Post #3 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:24 am 
Judan
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daal wrote:
...
So where did this TOS come from? It wouldn't surprise me if it was entirely penned by Araban and then signed off by the other admins. ....


Something like that. He posted it in the admin's forum, Jordus said that it looked ok, I added a suggestion, and Araban posted it.
Only 2 of 11(?) mods/admins replied. We never had a formal vote.
In 2012, Fwiffo wrote some proposed additions, asked if anybody objected. Only Topazg even replied, noting that he didn't object. Fwiffo added them.
This time, only one person replied. Again, there was no formal vote.

--------------------------------------------------

It is not perfect, and never will be. Like a constitution, it will need amending. And, like a constitution, it would be best amended after sober and deliberate reflection, and not altered to fit the transient moods or trends of the day.

I would prefer to have such a discussion focused on one topics at a time, to encourage said sober and deliberate reflection. With that in mind I started a thread on policies for teachers. ( http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 14&t=10115 )

I start it with some reservation, observing that it is a hot subject that has drawn much emotion. I only do so because it may be the most glaring shortcoming that the TOS has. If I could, I would start it months ago or months in the future, either before emotions have arisen, or after they have cooled.

I ask that members posting on the subject to please keep this in mind, and to not expect immediate changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the TOS up to date?
Post #4 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:06 pm 
Gosei
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