I'm with Bantari here... I think it is valuable to have one relatively dominant forum for a small community like this. If we are spread over several sites, we soon lose the critical mass to encourage people to come back.

I don't know about others but, if I return to this site and there are only a very few posts since the last time I visited, I lose interest. It's not worth the trouble to just read a couple of posts. Next time, I'll be less likely to return so quickly. That's a part of human nature, and I suspect it's common. The death of many blogs, etc has been lack of regular updates. A vibrant community begins to create its own kind of "gravity", sucking in more interested people all the time.

One of the reasons that I started this thread is that it's my perception that this place is less active than the old GD forums.

I really think the only advantage of a site like FaceBook is that "everyone" is there. It certainly doesn't have much else going for it. I'd probably be less likely to participate in "Go Discussions" over there.

Anyway, I have some programming experience and could help out with site improvements, if there are any that actually need doing....

Later,

Gohst

I think if the site has a major problem it's that after a year's break from here (give or take) I don't see many new usernames about the place. The site's biggest strength is that I see so many names I recognise. From a glance I'm not convinced that the OGS forums are "splitting the crowd" the discussion there seems to mostly be about OGS related topics.

I agree with all of those who say there is no need for an overhaul from the current forum, but a few aesthetic/technical upgrades might make it a little more welcoming to new users.

I think the biggest turnoff is probably that the site appears dead at a glance: the "recent posts" widget on the root domain recently stopped working, and the l19tv and pro games database links don't seem to have any up to date content. Most of the forum regulars probably bypass that page, so issues like that don't affect us. They can be a turnoff to newcomers, though, who may think the site has ceased to be updated.

The visual style can have a similar effect. It's functional, but it dates the site and makes it appear inactive at a quick glance. There are some fantastic contributors here for those who are willing to look a little deeper!

(Well I should be a new name)

This might be a thing, but there is three part to this

1) The growth of western players of Go is not that big either if I understand correctly
2) All new players are not the type of people that posts to forums (Most people regardless of level I know, are not on any go forum or anything like that)
3) In a so rank-based games, it can be indimating to acctually post something in front of higher ranked people. I tend to not give a crap about that, but thats because I can not make a bigger fool of myself then I did when I was drinking.

If thoose pages are unupdated then the first page should redirect to forum really.

Yup, I'd agree with all three. 1) is a problem for all go services in the West. What I mean is the site seems to do well with hanging onto the people it has which is important because the site doesn't gather new posters quickly and a sharp drop in the number of active posters (for any reason) could be fatal. Whereas retention is somewhat less important for forums with high uptake numbers. It's a trivial point but also why some forums keep going for years and years only to die in a few months.

Hello btw.

I don't know how much it helps people with a fear of public speaking, but I've definitely said things on here which were wrong and then corrected by others.

I really feel people here are a lot kinder than a general audience. It's not a weak side to this community.

Maybe it's also that when you play this game for a while, you encounter many moments where you're absolutely certain of the wrong move. It really tones down one's sense of perfection.

Just to clarify: I am not. I'm not saying that competing fora will improve the quality of the discussion. I am saying that we keep getting stuck with forum software that I think is ugly and lacks functionality.

I would gladly abandon 99% of the posts on L19 if we could move to a more modern forum. The huge majority of posts here have no long term value.

Now that can happen in one of two ways:
1. The maintainers of the current forum deploy a new one and migrate the necessary data over.
2. Another forum with better software starts to attract away users and L19 dies a natural death.

The first option is, IMO, unlikely. Many people will strongly oppose any such change, as it effectively forces everyone over (no choice)

So therefore, the second option is the only one I consider likely to get things done.

I wish there were a better way, but I don't see one.

Do you have an example? I haven't seen anything better out there.

http://www.discourse.org/ for instance. I'm sure that it isn't the only that's moved on from 90's style php web sites.

Ah yeah, I've seen it on ogs. I'm not a fan of the interface, but it's the content that matters most.

It's one of those interfaces that's nice on mobile/tablet touchscreen and not so nice to use/look at on a desktop browser.

Being at home in “classical” forums since around 2001, I was quite annoyed when I first encountered the discourse UI in the OGS forum … it took me a few days to get accustomed to it. Meanwhile I LOVE it. It’s so much easier (and faster) to find things, to subscribe to sub-forums or to exclude them from being shown in “new posts”, and perhaps best of all: paste images from the clipboard, and <whoosh> there they are.

But I’m happy with L19 as it is currently, better to have it as it is than to lose it. Oh well, if L19 changed to a “modern” UI I’d certainly like it, but I wouldn’t want to risk losing contributors here.

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

I'm having trouble understanding what people are seeing as so off-putting about the current forum software here. It's not all that pretty, but what's truly missing or broken? Maybe I don't see the issues because I always come here on a PC, as opposed to a tablet?

Maybe we can start another thread to document the "shortcomings"? But that thread will be useless, and just a source of a lot of carping, unless there is effective way to translate it into action (assuming there is anyone willing to do the work).

So, I have to ask... who runs this place, anyway?

-- Gohst

I agree; I really like this style of forum. But then, I also visit almost exclusively from a desktop/laptop. After reading the thread about what kind of hardware everyone uses for reading or posting on L19, I tried loading the site on my phone; now I know exactly what the gripe is! Honestly, though, I think just a Twitter bootstrap style would be good enough to make it easily useable on mobile devices (that, plus disabling the tapatalk nag-prompt).

That's not the point Herman was making, I think. Herman said that when you force a hard integration of the ecosystem with one particular forum/format for the discussions, you increase resistance to move to something better. You may ask "what better? what's wrong with this?" but that's a common mistake of humanity. Not all progress came from fixing something broken. New shapes arise from new capabilities that have come about through all sorts of events and evolutions. Who would have thought that keeping in touch with friends was fundamentally broken up untile the nineties? Then facebook came along and it unlocked an apparent humongous need for people to stay in touch with peers ALL THE *** TIME. The caps are there because I really think it's running out of hand, but again, that's not the point. Who would have thought you want to follow what famous people have to say in 140 characters? What was so fundamentally broken with hotels or taxis before Airbnb and Uber came along? The latter progress is hampered by guild protectionism in the law, by the way. And not always for the worse of it.

I could ramble on. You get the point. Harness the current form into your integral environment and any progress, inadvertent as it may be, might be slowed down.