Tchan's recent post about MarkSteere appears to have been deleted. Is there a reason why it was deleted (instead of being locked)? I did not see any posts in it which would warrant deletion imo.

Since people were offended by it, I deleted my own thread.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Ah, I see. Probably a good choice since it was probably going to lead to a lot of discussion which are not even really relevant since in hindsight the action was correct :p

I was just a bit confused and annoyed because I wrote a longish reply (full of the non-relevant discussion as mentioned above :p) and when I tried to submit the topic disappeared, but not a big deal.

Deleting the post was an abuse of power. It makes MarkSteere look like a greater villain by removing evidence of antagonism by tchan001. It should have been locked, which I understand is the normal L19 policy for threads that have gotten, or even might get, out of control.

@mw42:

I too would have preferred locking the thread instead of deletion because that way the previous discussion is kept, but I suspect that locking the thread would have also been criticized (e.g. claims of mod locking the thread to get the last say). Given that tchan wants to remove the effect of the offending post, deletion is also a cleaner option so I can definitely see the attraction. To be honest, though, I still agree that the best course of action would have been to make an apologetic reply (or edit the initial post) and explain that the post will be locked. This has the additional advantage of being very similar to what a regular user would have to do (edit/reply and ask for mod to lock topic) that thus remove the concern about misusing mod powers. However, that may be too much to expect, especially if tchan sees nothing wrong with the topic and just wanted to halt discussion.

I believe that part of the issue was that even in regular discussion mods are held to a higher standard and they have to be careful about what they say (especially regarding other users). It's often hard to separate personal emotions from discussion and clearly distinguish when it's appropriate to apply mod powers.

You realize of course that you have just made a personal attack on MarkSteere by subtly implying he is "merely a" rather than "a greater".

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

No, I think mw42 meant greater than you, not greater than he would have been otherwise.

Anyway, here are some half-formed thoughts on the whole affair:

If he meant greater than me, then that's a personal attack on two people at the same time with the use of one word by implying that I am the "greater" whereas MarkSteere is the "lesser".

But as you might say: Let's just get over it and drop the continuation of this discussion.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

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Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Why does a thread have to go anywhere? Why can't a thread just be a thread? Get a thicker skin.

I'm already confused because all the meta-context for this discussion has long been moved, locked or deleted already -- oh my!

If a thread isn't going anywhere, and is likely to cause trolling, it makes sense to lock it. Benign threads that are unproductive are less of an issue

trolling only works if the fish are biting

If threads are to be locked/deleted because they MIGHT lead to trolling, we might as well fold this whole forum.

PS>
My opinion is that admins should react to what happens or did happened, not try to predict what might possibly happen and react to that. Or we end up with people being punished for things they have not yet done. Wasn't there a movie like that once? With that tiny guy, what's his name... Cruise?

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

If the admins are going to go locking threads they don't like, deleting things they wish they hadn't said and generally throwing their weight around, it's the least they can do to not stifle the criticism.

I'm glad this issue seems to have been resolved amicably, but it might have been avoided entirely if the admins had had a bit more tolerance for dissent amongst forum members, and a bit more faith that we are capable of working out our differences without being nannied.

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Patience, grasshopper.

Speaking as someone who has been an admin for years on Ireland's largest bulletin board (as in, I've been in the middle of these situations or had to come in and sort out these kinds of situations), the admins are damned if they do and damned if they don't in these kinds of situations. A call has to be made, either way it'll be contentious. I guarantee you if action hadn't been taken and this hadn't been resolved there would have been many unhappy members of this site annoyed with the way threads were being dragged off topic constantly (honestly, I'd have been one of these). If action was taken you'd have the current result with other people saying it was too harsh, not how they want the forum to be run and so on.

Either way, a call must be made, either way people will be annoyed with the admins. Such is life if you sign up for the job but spare a thought for people doing a role that is utterly thankless in these kinds of situations. I'm not saying it's wrong to disagree with their actions here by the way.


To address the topic, the thread should have been locked with an apology from tchan001 for upsetting people in my opinion. Cleanest solution to the issue.#

Edit: Test.

I see it pretty clearly.

If moderators have the power to delete their own threads to deflect criticism, then ordinary posters should be able to delete their own threads as well. It is disingenuous to separate this power. At least only lock it, so that their folly can be on display.

As I see it, Tchan was in a moral conflict and tried to do what s/he thought would do the least damage, and when then the damage done seemed larger, s/he tried to repair it, all in good faith that it would be the best solution. I see no evidence s/he did it in order to deflect criticism, at most the reason was shame, which is painful, as I very well know. I won’t throw a stone here …

And I find it most extraordinary that such a discussion can take place at all and that admins not only allow it but also engage in it lighthandedly, bravo for that.

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

I'm also against locking posts, but I didn't realize that ordinary users couldn't delete their own posts.

I'm probably rebellious at heart, so I get angry when stuff is censored by admins. Sometimes I get angry and want to pack up and leave. But it's such a hassle to get a new domain name, get a new server, and have everyone migrate there like we did when we moved from GoDiscussions.com... So all in all, I'm inclined to just go with the flow when it comes to admins locking threads as they please.

I'm all for decentralization of power, but when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter that much to me.

Ah well, I don't know what I think for sure. I've had a little bit to drink because my son finally fell asleep... ZZZzzzzz....

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be immersed

I think I'll just do a JF and stay away from the community for a long while and turn my blog private.
You can all thank the wonderful designer of Redstone, Mark Steere, for what he wrote about me on rec.games.go as one of the main factors for helping me decide on making my own material private.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

Not to judge, but think that you sometimes take criticisms a little bit too personally. I just want to let you know that even though I've disagreed with you on several issues I've enjoyed your blog posts and think that you've made a positive contribution. Hope that you return quickly after the break