Who stands better in this fuseki?

jeromie · **#201**

Bill Spight wrote:

Edit: I don't think that invading the bottom left corner is one of them.

It's not where I'd usually play, and after I actually played the position out I realized it didn't look very good for black. Of course, I wouldn't (intentionally) end up in that position as black - I have trouble getting profit out of thin positions. Handling loosely connected stones without letting the opponent profit too much from attack is something I very much admire in stronger players.

Bill Spight · **#202**

jeromie wrote:

Of course, I wouldn't (intentionally) end up in that position as black - I have trouble getting profit out of thin positions. Handling loosely connected stones without letting the opponent profit too much from attack is something I very much admire in stronger players.

To learn how to do that, you need to try making thin positions.

Pippen · **#203**

Black to play. I wonder especially if Black should invade the right low white corner or play from distance, giving white the corner, but having sente and some big move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

skydyr · **#204**

I'd be tempted to play a sealing move on the bottom left group. White's left with a decent corner and it doesn't feel like all that much else.

ez4u · **#205**

Pippen wrote:

Black to play. I wonder especially if Black should invade the right low white corner or play from distance, giving white the corner, but having sente and some big move...

White has played two terribly submissive plays in the lower left, securing no more than 20 points in the process. I rather like skydyr's idea of a sealing move. Not because it seals White in but because it expands the left while loosely connecting the left-side stone to the strong group at the bottom. I like one of the 'a' points. The knight's move at 'b' is just an invitation to White to push and cut.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . a a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Pippen · **#206**

I agree with you guys, but if you would have to play on the right side? Where would it be?

skydyr · **#207**

Maybe the star point, or the high 2-space backside approach?

It's hard for me to think about because my eye keeps looking left. Honestly, it's very dependent on what's going on on the left side, but the left side seal is so demanding. If there were a different position that made the left less urgent, one of the above might be okay, but that might change other things about the position too. It's a bit like asking 'if white had a strong group where black has a moyo now, where would you play?' It's a whole 'nother game.

Pippen · **#208**

Ok, let me give u two concrete examples, Black to play in every case but where and is it an even game in either diagram so far?

No. 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

No. 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Jhyn · **#209**

In both cases I would say the result is equal, at least I would be satisfied playing both sides.

In the first I would play C14 postponing an invasion of the right.
In the second I would play Q10.

Pippen · **#210**

Black just played the marked stone. IMO White can either kill the lower right group with T2, but then Black's K16 kills its whole upper group or White plays K16 itself and lives, but Black can play T2 and make the group there seki. Am I right (and White should play K16 now)?

Uberdude · **#211**

Pippen wrote:

Ok, let me give u two concrete examples, Black to play in every case but where and is it an even game in either diagram so far?

No. 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . a , O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Not sure if I prefer black or white here, maybe black a little as I think the continuation at a is powerful; I feel white's last 2 moves (presumably) of approach top right were dubious as this approach attacks white's m3 stone.

Pippen wrote:

No. 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . a , O . . | $$ | . . . . W X . O . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Prefer black, white's shape on left has too many holes and a is ever better now. If black plays the marked kick to take sente he should use his sente to take care or m3.

Pippen · **#212**

Black tries to run with 1. I think from White's perspective moves 2, 4 and 6 are almost forcing, but now what? My intuition tells me to let Black connect underneath to use sente, but where? What would your thought process look like?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 7 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X 6 O . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O 1 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

ez4u · **#213**

Pippen wrote:

Black tries to run with 1. I think from White's perspective moves 2, 4 and 6 are almost forcing, but now what? My intuition tells me to let Black connect underneath to use sente, but where? What would your thought process look like?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 7 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X 6 O . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O 1 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Do you think that you will lose sentence if you prevent Black from connecting under? What sequence do you expect?

Pippen · **#214**

@ez4u: In the game it went like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 7 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X 6 O . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O 1 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 9 O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

[/quote]

I just don't have a clue what to play here.

ez4u · **#215**

Pippen wrote:

@ez4u: In the game it went like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 7 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X 6 O . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O 1 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 9 O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I just don't have a clue what to play here.

Typical would be something like the diagram below by analogy with the usual joseki when White plays the shoulder hit at L16. White can live in the corner but right now would just like to make Black decide whether to block at 'a' or 'b'. White will tenuki after Black's next play, leaving the potential in the corner for later. The question arises where to play next. Should White take the empty corner or play immediately against the upper left with something like 'c'?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O O . X . O . b 5 . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X 2 4 . X a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pippen · **#216**

Is 3 a good idea here? My idea would be to sacrifice a stone to get White closed in and to build up outside influence if White tries to escape. Or what would u play instead of 3?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . X . . X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

skydyr · **#217**

Pippen wrote:

Is 3 a good idea here? My idea would be to sacrifice a stone to get White closed in and to build up outside influence if White tries to escape. Or what would u play instead of 3?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . O . X . . X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Because of the 5-4 point, white still has a lot of scope to maneuver in the corner and get a decent result. Your :b3:

looks like it's inviting white to push and cut off :b1:

, which seems somewhat playable. I might be more inclined to play :b3:

one point to the left, so as to help the black bottom group more without damaging :b1:

as much. If white then pushes out, black can just follow along on the 4th line, getting stronger effectively for free.

Pippen · **#218**

Here's another example, White to play. I like 'a' more than 'b' for it seals in Black. What do you think?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

skydyr · **#219**

Pippen wrote:

Here's another example, White to play. I like 'a' more than 'b' for it seals in Black. What do you think?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Locally, white's shape looks painfully broken and white needs to choose which side to build and which to abandon. Is this a game position with something going on in the top right?

Pippen · **#220**

Here White tries to split with 1 and I wonder what's the best black responce. My idea is 2-6 which'd leave White weak. Anything better/sharper?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 1 3 , 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . X 2 . O 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Who stands better in this fuseki?

Who is online