What do you make of this?

flOvermind · **#41**

tj86430 wrote:

Li Kao · **#42**

amnal · **#43**

Fascinating. Thanks for the interesting challenge, Harlequin.

Harleqin · **#44**

I would like to discuss some positions from the game.

The first was this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black now played the two space jump. My feeling is that this is not good, because Black cannot comfortably counter-pincer afterwards due to the white support from the left corner. I think that it is better to either directly approach the lower left corner or to play the kosumi (O4) to settle quickly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 1 . , O . . | $$ | . . . . b . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am absolutely not sure about this, and it might be a question of style, but I would be interested in hearing arguments for the two space jump.

The next thing was more severe, I think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here, Black peeped at Q5. I think that this is bad, because Black could have settled much better by attaching in the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . 3 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The peep destroys that option, and its only function is to fix the thinness of the two space jump. It would again be better to approach the lower left corner directly.

What do you think of this?

Joaz Banbeck · **#45**

I think that I see the logic of the peep. The overarching plan, of course, is to counter-pincer. ( Whether or not that is a good plan is another issue. ) White's R6 is, IMHO, too small, for it does not adequately pressure black. If black sees R6 as I do, he concludes that his group is not in danger and can then tenuki to the lower left. But before tenuking, he must take care of one last possibility: he must prevent white from pushing through the two-space jump. He does this in sente, and then he can tenuki. It makes sense, given his goal of the counter-pincer.

Furthermore, he does not mind the exchange of Q5 for R5. With R5, white is over-concentrated. After R5, tewari analysis suggests that R6 is misplaced. It looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if white were allowed to reposition his R6 stone, he would want it like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In summary, I think white's R6 was a minor mistake, and the peep was an attempt to exploit that mistake. It is a pity that it was done in pursuit of a dubious goal.

Harleqin · **#46**

I think that R6 is a quite normal move, and after the peep, White's stones are not any more overconcentrated than Black's (who would reposition his stones to two ikken tobi now, wouldn't he?).

Magicwand · **#47**

Harleqin wrote:

I think that R6 is a quite normal move, and after the peep, White's stones are not any more overconcentrated than Black's (who would reposition his stones to two ikken tobi now, wouldn't he?).

R6 is a normal move. i dont see anything wrong with that exchange.
i think if the move has intent, meaning, purpose then it is usually normal.
i see why black exchanges R6,S6 (to cover his weakness in sente)
and i dont think it is aji keshi. and i dont see anything wrong with that exchange.

topazg · **#48**

My take:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 X . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 6 5 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I can see Black being aware of this, and choosing to peep to fix this weakness. However, I'm not keen on it. Normally the the two point jump as far as I can remember is for the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . # . 2 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Where the marked stone can be exchanged for the corner, and P6 becomes a useful reducing stone. By peeping, I think Black makes this annoying:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now it feels like Black has left the possibility for White to get a big corner while overconcentrating him. Alternative moves like "a" for Black are also gone now White has connected his stones. I'd probably have counter-pincered immediately:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck · **#49**

Magicwand wrote:

Harleqin wrote:

I think that R6 is a quite normal move, and after the peep, White's stones are not any more overconcentrated than Black's (who would reposition his stones to two ikken tobi now, wouldn't he?).

R6 is a normal move. i dont see anything wrong with that exchange.
i think if the move has intent, meaning, purpose then it is usually normal.
i see why black exchanges R6,S6 (to cover his weakness in sente)
and i dont think it is aji keshi. and i dont see anything wrong with that exchange.

Uhh...did you have a typo in those coordinates? Perhaps you meant Q5 instead of R6, and R5 instead of S6?

Joaz Banbeck · **#50**

Harleqin wrote:

I think that R6 is a quite normal move...

Kogo wrote:

R6?? Never heard of it...

Ishida wrote:

Nor me. R7 is joseki.

topazg · **#51**

I agree that I'm not keen on R6 - I've read out a number of bits and bobs from my counter pincer and I'm happy with most of them - maybe R7 is normal because staying ahead is too important?

daniel_the_smith · **#52**

My database says that pros never play R6 in that position.

Harleqin · **#53**

Heh, I looked it up at gobase, and with the low pincer, R6 is actually never played. I do not know the reason. With the pincer high, it is sometimes played when the right side is not very interesting. I do not understand why this makes a difference.

By the way, I think that the cut should be like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 3 . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . 2 1 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The butting feels clumsy.

Anyway, I guess that the pincer position has some influence on the shape after this cut.

Joaz Banbeck · **#54**

Harleqin wrote:

Heh, I looked it up at gobase, and with the low pincer, R6 is actually never played. I do not know the reason. With the pincer high, it is sometimes played when the right side is not very interesting. I do not understand why this makes a difference.

I think it makes a difference because the low pincer leaves less room for eyes to the west, so an eventual R3 is likely to acquire eye space to the east, leading to something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this position, again R6 looks too close:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , W W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and R7 looks much better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , W W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But if the pincer is high, black is more likely to have played M2, and might end up like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now R6 looks reasonable:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . . , W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and R7 feels like a bit of a stretch:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . . , W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . W . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Harleqin · **#55**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

I think it makes a difference because the low pincer leaves less room for eyes to the west, so an eventual R3 is likely to acquire eye space to the east,

I cannot follow this argument. Black just having the option not to make White overconcentrated would not entice him to let go of this opportunity, would it?

Anyway, I think that White has some good options where the R6 stone does not look so bad:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . 8 6 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X 4 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here,

protects the cut after Black captures :w2:

. Note how :bc:

looks a lot less meaningful.

Quote:

But if the pincer is high, black is more likely to have played M2, and might end up like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . 3 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that White would not even play S3, but cut immediately:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . O . . 4 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#56**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the stretch to slight overconcentration issue for White is not that big of a deal. I still stand by this as the point that makes White uncomfortable about the one point jump. If Black had only made a one point jump, White's move would be very reasonable, and I think a large part of that is that Black can only play this move with this situation after a two point jump. It's the equivalent of a capping attack to make the White group seal in small in the corner, or run out and help Black develop points on the RHS

HermanHiddema · **#57**

Since the peep at Q5 is a normal move even when white has made the two point jump to R7, I don't think it can be criticized here. White's position is certainly no better for it. Playing R6 created an immediate threat to cut with P5, unlike R7, so playing the peep immediately, rather than later (as is normal with R7), seems like a sensible idea. It is definitely more urgent now.

P6 in itself, in this situation, can indeed be considered dubious, as the counter pincer is less attractive due to white having the lower left corner.

Harleqin · **#58**

Gobase shows 0 hits for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . O . . | $$ . . . X . . . . | $$ . . . . 1 . . . | $$ . . . . , O . . | $$ O . . X . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------[/go]

It is common with the high pincer, though. My guess is that, with the high pincer, Black's corner eye shape is not so critical, and he can play the peep which makes the outside stone stronger than the 3-3 attachment. The corner attachment is nevertheless also played frequently. With the low pincer, Black has no other place for settling than the corner, so the corner attachment takes precedence.

Harleqin · **#59**

OK, the next situation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O X O . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . X X O O X . O . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here, I played :w1:

. Would 'a' perhaps have been better?

topazg · **#60**

I don't think so - it looks more crude than :w1:

- I really like this move

What do you make of this?

Who is online