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 Post subject: Re: L+1 with two hane
Post #21 Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:26 pm 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
Not common in my world, though I can do it without a calculator if I have to. But I don't think the analogy quite fits anyway. At school I learnt how to do things like find the square root of a number using paper and pencil. That might be a better fit with learning some of the weirder positions.


My perspective is that, while the position may be "weird", the process of systematically reading through a weird position is not weird - it's a valuable skill. What I was trying to get at in the analogy is that you have this set of fundamental and practical knowledge, and then you have this system for solving arbitrarily complicated problems. And getting used to this system needs practice.

So, in my opinion, that's where the value in solving "weird" position lies: you practice your ability to systematically work through something weird to come up with the correct solution.

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 Post subject: Re: L+1 with two hane
Post #22 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:04 am 
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Kirby wrote:
So, in my opinion, that's where the value in solving "weird" position lies: you practice your ability to systematically work through something weird to come up with the correct solution.

To get the correct solution, you will have to do so thoroughly. In my opinion, this is the most important aspect.

Evaluating the "difficulty" of a Tsume-Go problem is not so easy; and different authors give different estimations in their books for the same problem.

In my experience, there is a large, and decisive, difference between

-- finding the (often quite obvious) vital point of a problem, and also the (sometimes quite obivous) primary solution sequence that is usually given in the books, and
-- finding the correct answer to some (might be "weird") alternative moves of either the defender, or the attacker, which usually are not included in most of the books.

There are a lot of problems that are given as (quite) "difficult", not because the primary solution sequence is so very difficult to find, but because the variation tree of the solution is so large and confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: L+1 with two hane
Post #23 Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:18 am 
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First, thanks to emeraldemon for asking this interesting question.

This rather artificial position is one that has appeared in many go books over a long span of time. It certainly used to be considered alive. But books contain mistakes and knowledge evolves.

The position is discussed with 9 diagrams in 'roku dan gokaku no shikatsu 150 dai' 6 dan life and death 150 problems published by Nihon Kiin in 2002. After discussing the usual lines, the final diagram states that mannen ko is correct.

This book is listed in the SL page:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?NihonKiInDanLevel
Probably included in the Kisedo series 'Graded Go Problems for Dan Players', which doubled up to 300 per book, but I don't have the English books.
http://senseis.xmp.net/?GradedGoProblemsForDanPlayers


Last edited by Richard Hunter on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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