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 Post subject: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #1 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:55 am 
Gosei

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<Edit: Not good according to Elf>

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 5 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Last edited by Gomoto on Sun May 06, 2018 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #2 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:56 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


A fuseki to my liking. I love as always the dual shoulder hits by black. Zenith 7 and AQ differ vastly in there assessment of this fuseki. This continues through the continuation from here quite long, AQ votes for white 55% and Zen for Black 55% (I am not finished with my analysis yet). I am quite interested how AQ and Zen will settle the battle. In my opinion Zen will be victorious over 30 second 1080Ti AQ GPU (If only because I am allowing Zen unlimited time :twisted:).


Last edited by Gomoto on Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #3 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:11 am 
Gosei

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Why am I studying this fuseki?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 5 , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think move 9 is no longer viable. The marked white move is too good of an answer in my opinion.

As always take my opinions with a grain of salt :D:
A recent pro game, Yamada Kimio 9p versus Ryu Shikun 9p B+0.5:



Last edited by Gomoto on Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #4 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:18 am 
Gosei

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A possible continuation for the fuseki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 2 6 . 1 . X . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 9 , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 0 O 6 1 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


AQ still roots for white 55% and Zen still favors black 55%. Guess what kind of fanboy is Gomoto! This is the beauty of Go, two strong (AI) players differ so much in their views, yet both are decent competitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #5 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:40 pm 
Gosei

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Variation 1: AQ is right

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . X O X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 7 . 4 . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . 9 . . 6 X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X X 8 O 2 X 5 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 0 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Zen did not anticipate white 40 and likewise AQ was surprised by the answer black 41.


Last edited by Gomoto on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #6 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:23 pm 
Gosei

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Variations 2: Zen is right


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 Post subject: Re: Gomoto's Fuseki Studies Vol. 5
Post #7 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:34 pm 
Gosei

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Conclusion: I am looking forword to try the fuseki in real games.


Further Conclusion:

It is nice to analyze with Zen.

It is nice to analyze with AQ.

It is nicer to use ZenAQ as Analyzer.

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