It is currently Thu Apr 18, 2024 4:54 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Tengen Square Go Puzzle
Post #1 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:20 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9545
Liked others: 1600
Was liked: 1711
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Stolen from Starstorm3's KGS profile info:

Quote:
Go Puzzle: "The Tengen Square" If you play an 8-stone handicap game as White with Chinese rules (i.e. black can place his handicap stones wherever he likes), and your opponent places them all around tengen in a square, then he plays mirror go with you the entire game, is it possible for you to win?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Have fun.

_________________
be immersed

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject:
Post #2 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:27 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Let's see... :)


Simply brute-force doesn't seem to work as :black: wins the libs race
( :white: always pushing from behind ):

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re:
Post #3 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:48 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 388
Liked others: 416
Was liked: 198
EdLee wrote:
Mirror instantly broken with a variety of moves (example),
after which it's :white:'s level vs. :black:'s.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 X X X 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 8 X , X 7 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 X X X 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 7 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 X X 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X , X O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 O O 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 8 0 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Hm, not sure what you mean by this example - black can continue to mirror white even after the last diagram you show here...

_________________
Sorin - 361points.com

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Tengen Square Go Puzzle
Post #4 Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:32 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 124
Was liked: 42
For a similar situation, see this discussion at Senseis Library:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?CounteringMirr ... Discussion

...which shows (I believe) that White can break Black's mirror go strategy. (On the other hand, the moves shown are so odd (or perhaps even bad), that I doubt many players would wish to play them.)

_________________
And the go-fever which is more real than many doctors’ diseases, waked and raged...
- Rudyard Kipling, "The Light That Failed" (1891)

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group