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 Post subject: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #1 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:10 pm 
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shape #1

Black to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]



The only move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . B . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


This post by Gomoto was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, Bonobo, Elom
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #2 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:30 pm 
Honinbo

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Well, I goofed! ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

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This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Gomoto
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #3 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:50 pm 
Judan

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KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Often after kick the bots like to push up.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 3 O . . ,
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


If you push without kick then either immediately or in future this attach and cut is a nice tactic for white to make black inefficient, hence the kick makes more sense.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 4 . X . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X . 1 O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by 5 people: Bill Spight, Bonobo, Elom, Gomoto, le_4TC
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #4 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:37 pm 
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Gomoto wrote:
The only move:


That's almost never the case that anything is "the only move", especially in the opening.
I can think of at least 4 more "only moves" :-)

Also, are there any other stones nearby? Or on the rest of the board?

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #5 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Tenuki is always an option. Let us think about the local candidate moves in this shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #6 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:51 am 
Tengen
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #7 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:08 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #8 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . 1 X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #9 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:51 pm 
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@sorin

Attachment:
shape1.jpg
shape1.jpg [ 292.95 KiB | Viewed 893 times ]


Attachment:
shape1b.jpg
shape1b.jpg [ 298.98 KiB | Viewed 893 times ]


Last edited by Gomoto on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #10 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:53 pm 
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@jlt&joaz: have a look at uberdude's variations, the combination with the kick and the push up is just better

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #11 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Gomoto wrote:
@sorin

Attachment:
shape1.jpg


Attachment:
shape1b.jpg


Interesting, I also checked and of the several board positions I tried, it looks like LeelaZero is obsessed with kosumi-tsuke :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #12 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:28 pm 
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So is ELFv0 :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #13 Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:52 am 
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If there are other stones nearby, LZ157 doesn't necessarily choose the kosumi-tsuke (the position below may be artificial).

Attachment:
shape.JPG
shape.JPG [ 109.82 KiB | Viewed 814 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
Post #14 Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Doesn't need LZ to have a feeling that C15 inducing D14 could be a pretty bad move.

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