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Interesting shapes - shapes to remember
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=16260
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Author:  Gomoto [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

shape #1

Black to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]



The only move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . B . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Well, I goofed! ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  Uberdude [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Often after kick the bots like to push up.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 3 O . . ,
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


If you push without kick then either immediately or in future this attach and cut is a nice tactic for white to make black inefficient, hence the kick makes more sense.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 4 . X . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X . 1 O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  sorin [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Gomoto wrote:
The only move:


That's almost never the case that anything is "the only move", especially in the opening.
I can think of at least 4 more "only moves" :-)

Also, are there any other stones nearby? Or on the rest of the board?

Author:  Gomoto [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Tenuki is always an option. Let us think about the local candidate moves in this shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  jlt [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . .
$$ | . . . X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  sorin [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . 1 X . . O . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]

Author:  Gomoto [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

@sorin

Attachment:
shape1.jpg
shape1.jpg [ 292.95 KiB | Viewed 1162 times ]


Attachment:
shape1b.jpg
shape1b.jpg [ 298.98 KiB | Viewed 1162 times ]

Author:  Gomoto [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

@jlt&joaz: have a look at uberdude's variations, the combination with the kick and the push up is just better

Author:  sorin [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Gomoto wrote:
@sorin

Attachment:
shape1.jpg


Attachment:
shape1b.jpg


Interesting, I also checked and of the several board positions I tried, it looks like LeelaZero is obsessed with kosumi-tsuke :-)

Author:  Gomoto [ Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

So is ELFv0 :-)

Author:  jlt [ Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

If there are other stones nearby, LZ157 doesn't necessarily choose the kosumi-tsuke (the position below may be artificial).

Attachment:
shape.JPG
shape.JPG [ 109.82 KiB | Viewed 1083 times ]

Author:  Vio [ Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting shapes - shapes to remember

Doesn't need LZ to have a feeling that C15 inducing D14 could be a pretty bad move.

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