It is currently Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:02 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 501 Opening Problems and a committee of AIs
Post #21 Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:15 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 570
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 206
Was liked: 259
Rank: Australian 2 dan
GD Posts: 200
Position D: my results.

Position D is problem 17 from the book. Black needs to defend the bottom left group--but exactly which move is best?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Position D. Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . c d X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O . . e . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now I'm sure I've seen the bottom left position as a problem in a book, although I can't remember exactly where, and 'd' was promoted as an example of honte, leaving no weaknesses in the corner and getting ready to pincer :wc:. Indeed 'd' is the book move, but only AQ had it as first choice. All the other bots picked 'a', mostly as the only move examined, except that GX-47 had 'c' as second choice and AQ had 'b' as second choice. Regardless of which move is chosen, white wants to play 'e' pretty soon.

I also searched GoGoD (Spring 1998, with help from Kombilo) for this shape and found 23 hits. Black played 'b' and 'd' 11 times each and 'c' once, with no occurences of the bots' favourite move.

KataGo evaluations and followup moves:


Attachments:
017-variations.sgf [377 Bytes]
Downloaded 450 times

This post by xela was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 501 Opening Problems and a committee of AIs
Post #22 Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:53 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
xela wrote:
I also searched GoGoD (Spring 1998, with help from Kombilo) for this shape and found 23 hits. Black played 'b' and 'd' 11 times each and 'c' once, with no occurences of the bots' favourite move.


Human cultural blind spot. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 501 Opening Problems and a committee of AIs
Post #23 Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:29 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 570
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 206
Was liked: 259
Rank: Australian 2 dan
GD Posts: 200
Position E: my results.

Position E is problem 19 from the book. The key issue is how to deal with white's moyo at the top left -- or is it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Position E. Black to play.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . c b . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . f . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The book move is 'a'. The bots generally thought the top right was more interesting: black should play 'd', or if black plays elsewhere then white will play 'e' soon.
  • 'a' was the book move.
  • 'd' was first choice for LZ-242, GX47, KataGo and Ray.
  • ELF chose 'b'.
  • AQ chose 'c'.
  • GX47 threw out 'f' as a close second choice.

KataGo evaluations and followup moves:


Attachments:
019-variations.sgf [1.17 KiB]
Downloaded 400 times

This post by xela was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, jptavan
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group