san ren sei, attach, counter hane

Knotwilg · #1

I've been playing this opponent 4 times already on OGS and he deploys the same strategy, which I want to discuss here, with some help from our botty friends

Bill Spight · #2

I don't know if it is best in this situation, but I have seen this variation vs. sanrensei in the Elf commentaries.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm9 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 3 1 X 9 7 . 0 . b . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 2 O 5 . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With

at a or b.

Edit: That was versus sanrensei by Black, which is questionable these days by both humans and bots. I suppose that it is held in even less regard for White.

John Tilley · #3

I had not seen White 10 before, a most interesting move. It can be found in Suzuki's Great Joseki Dictionary - which provides 28 diagrams. (Volume 1 diagrams 3073 to 3100). Do you have access to this 3 volumed work? If not I might be persuaded to copy the three pages and email them to you. I'll refrain from posting them as I am sure there are copyright issues.

You can usually find this work second-hand on Japan Yahoo Auctions, as no-one wants big heavy books, for a very modest price; however if you have to ask how much it costs for air-mail to Europe maybe it's too expensive!

Best Wishes - John Tilley

Gomoto · #4

Fair use in my opinion.

(And copying is not better than posting.)

Bill Spight · #5

Hi, Tilley! Long time. The Berkeley Go Club has a copy. Several years ago I provided the club with a small Japanese-English dictionary for many of the terms in it.

But I agree that fair use for educational purposes would allow posting some variations with English comments which are not verbatim translations. But 3 pages may be too much material. (US law would allow posting all the variations sans comments, but I don't think Japanese law does. IANAL, OC.)

John Tilley · #6

I attach a three page PDF that has been OCRed - you can cut and paste the characters into a translation website - such as Jisho.org Please note that I have NOT attempted to proof read for OCR accuracy - but hopefully it's a step in the right direction.

I was reluctant to just copy the pages for general use, perhaps having OCRed them it becomes "fair" use.

If anyone wants a crib-sheet of the diagram comments I'll see what I can do.

Best Wishes - John Tilley

Uberdude · #7

It's a bit of a cop-out answer, but in my experience when I've come across people playing this counter hane they are generally weaker than me, so it doesn't really matter if I reply in the absolute best way (and I typically just atari and connect and take the side territory) because I will beat them later anyway. They are often overly focused on making the san ren sei into territory, so will answer a reduction passively, you give them the points and make your own big side plus 2 big corners. And you can always attach under the hoshi for giggles. I do recall though reviewing a game with Catalin Taranu 5p where it cropped up and he advocated the pull back of Knotwilg's 4, a patient and thick move typical of his style.

Gomoto · #8

How about this?

Gomoto · #9

Had the chance to try something similar in a game:

san ren sei, attach, counter hane

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